Bergins, Cloughessy, Campion, Ryan of Forekill Townland, Clomantagh Civil Parish

 

Tim Bergin & Mgt Ryan. G. Grove. Forkhill. Grean.-  - I believe that Mgt Ryan married to Timothy Bergin, Bgt Ryan married to Ml Norton & Thomas Quinlan married to Elenor Ryan were sisters.

16th Dec. 1806 John to Tim Bergin & Mgt Ryan. G. Grove. Urlingford. Spr Ml Norton & Anty Quinn/Peacan (There was a Peacan family at Grane)

1811 Anne to Tim Bergin . Fmr. Urard, Gortnahoe & Margaret Ryan? Sprs. Jas Cleary & Cath Conway. Anne Bergin Spr. for Campion child.

1813 Aug. Timothy to Timothy Bergin. Fmr Urard & Mgt Ryan. Spr Thos Quinn & Elinor Ryan – Gortnahoe record.

1818 Mar. Margt to Tim Bergin & Mgt Ryan. Spr Ml Ryan & Mary Hogan. Forkhill, Urlingford. Married Edmond Bowe, Longfordpass, Gortnahoe. Margaret Bergin Spr. For Campion child.

1820 Bgt to Tim Bergin & Mgt Ryan. Spr Richd Peacon & Mary Bergin. Grean, Urlingford.

1823 Patt to Timothy Bergin & Mgt Ryan. Spr Patt Tobin & Ann Naghton. Grean. Urlingford.

I do not have a marriage for Timothy Bergin & Margaret Ryan, I do believe/know that they had more children born before Urlingford records began.

Question - how did you know that there may be a Campion connection and how did you get the name Sylvester Bergin?

There are Bergin's still living at Forkhill, Urlingford.

 

I was taken by surprise when I saw your message and having slept on it, I do now believe, that we are distant cousins

Now that both of us have reached out,  mail me, eily@nuatech.net

Joan Smith: do you a birthdate for your Sylvester Bergin and who were his siblings and parents?.......researching

my Bergins from Laois or Kilkenny and that name may be a link...thanks. Jon P. Bergin: bergin53@hotmail.com

Hi Joan, I am Tom Clochesy.  James & Julia Campion Clohesey in Urlingford were my 3 times great grandparents. Their son Thomas was my 2 times great grandparents.  He & his 

wife Mary had a farm in Eldorado township in Fond du Lac, Co. WI.  Thams & Mary had 3 sons, John born in 1850, George born in 1852, Thomas who died in 1868 and a daughter Moria..

My great grandfather George was married to Anna Crowley.  My grandfather Thomas was born in Eldorado in 1888.. It was interesting that you mention the name Sylvester.  John Clohesy had a son

Sylvester.  The Bergins you mention, Julia, sister of my 2 times great grandparents are all buried at St. Charles cemetery..  Joan, are you a granddaughter of Delia?  I use to meet with her &

Marcella to talk about family history & lore in the early 1970s.  

tomwis_us@yahoo.com

 

Hi Tom, how great to hear from you, my 4th cousin!  We share the same 3G grandparents – James Clohesey and Julia Campion, who lived in the Catholic parish of Urlingford and Graine, County Kilkenny – with connections, most likely, in the neighboring Catholic parish of Gortnahoe, just over the border in County Tipperary.

My 2G grandmother, Julia Clohesy, was the sister of your 2G grandfather, Irish immigrant Thomas Clohesey.  Julia married fellow immigrant Michael Bergin in 1852 at St. Louis church in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin.  If you look at the plat maps of Eldorado, Fond du Lac County (which I'm sure you're familiar with), you can see the Bergin farms north of the Clohesy farm.  They all knew each other very well!

My lineage:  My 3G grandparents James Clohesy and Julia Campion > My 2G grandparents Julia Clohesy and Michael Bergin > My great grandparents John Bergin and Margaret Costin (neighbor farm girl from nearby Friendship) > My grandfather William T. Bergin (last one in my line born in Eldorado) and Cecile K. Morris > My parents Mary Kay Bergin and Bruce M. Stewart > Myself Joan M. Stewart and Paul Smith > My son Stewart E. Smith.

I'm doing more research on our ancestors in Ireland, trying to get a clearer picture of where exactly they lived, rather than just the "Parish of Graine/Urlingford," which has been passed down our line. I've done some research on your 2G grandfather Thomas's descendants, so I am happy to be in touch! It would be great to compare our notes, add any info and make any corrections. 

There's a lot to talk about, including the contact I've had with Eily Moyan in Ireland (who also replied to this post), so I'll contact you directly via email.  Her 3G grandparents are William Campion and Mary Ann Bergin, who is most likely the sister or close relative of my 2G grandfather Michael Bergin and the aunt of Margaret Bergin, the 1st wife of your great granduncle John James Clohesy in Fond du Lac.  I'm not sure if William is a close relative of our 3G grandmother Julia/Judith Campion, but he may be.

As far as creative spellings of Clohesy, I’ve since given up on a standard there. In records of my ancestors, it’s Clahacy, Cloughessy, Clochesy, Clohosey, Clossy, Clossey, Closkey, Clohosy … Since it's your surname, I sure you know of more!

I'll continue this via email!

Cousin Joan in Los Angeles

Hi Joan, I just came across your post while searching for Nolan in Forkhill and found so many connections that there must be a bigger story here. My Phelan family are from Goresgrove which is a townland close to the church at Graine, so the residents of Forkhill and Goresgrove would all have attended the same church. My great grandfather, Kieran Phelan married Margaret Bergin (1832-1879).... she is burried at Graine. His brother William Michael Phelan migrated to Fond du Lac in 1850 and was given land in El Dorado.... he later married a girl from Forkhill Margaret Norton in NY in 1853. When he sailed to America he took a younger Phelan cousin with him. When did your relatives migrate? It seems that someone went first and informed everyone else of the opportunities available there. My great grandfather Kyran (as spelt) Phelan, was sponsored on his baptism by Patt Campion & Mary Reade... there are further sponsors also Bergins. I have lots of other information gathered from my research and would like to find out more. Jim

Hi Jim Phelan,

Good to hear from you. I must say this post is "the gift that keeps on giving.” It’s brought in some great fellow family archivists like you.  So far, two turned out to be distant cousins!  

Like all of us, I’m trying to establish facts, working from a great big pile of puzzle pieces.  Since there’s a lot, feel free to reply to me at jsmith@featureflash.com, if you’d like.

Yes, I’ve read about your great granduncle William Michael Phelan, multi-faceted Irish immigrant of Fond du Lac.  I’ve even considered that he could have been the best man (“William Whelan” – Phelan?) recorded in the 1852 Fond du Lac, Wisconsin wedding record of my 2G grandparents Michael Bergin and Julia Clohesy.  

Michael and Julia were both from the same area of Ireland as your Phelan ancestors, Urlingford aka Graine parish, County Kilkenny.  We are sure they came from that parish, but the townland name has been a mystery. After looking at a lot of records, I now think they probably came from around Forekill, Graine and Goresgrove, with some back-and-forth across the Kilkenny and Tipperary county border, which was very near to that area.

To answer your question about when my direct ancestors emigrated from County Kilkenny:  My 2G grandfather Michael Bergin and his brother Timothy arrived in New York in April 1846, lived 2 years in Vermont on the east coast, then moved 1,000 miles westward, where they acquired property (land patent) and lived on adjoining farms in Eldorado, Fond du Lac County, Wisconsin in 1850.

I was told that Michael and Tim Bergin came to Fond du Lac County because a good family friend from back home, Terrence Fox, was there.  Whether true or not, they all came there at about the same time. As you know, your great granduncle William Michael Phelan, according to his bio, also arrived in Fond du Lac about 1850. 

This may interest you because Terrence’s wife was Anastasia Phelan from Kildrinagh, also near Goresgrove, Forkhill, etc. in Urlingford parish.  Perhaps she is related to you. More on that later.

Back to your question: I think we can safely say that Michael and Terrence were in Eldorado by 1850.  The first census that both Michael and Terrence appear on is the 1855 Wisconsin census in Eldorado, a small rural community first settled in 1846. Eldorado is a few miles northwest of the town of Fond du Lac at the foot of Lake Winnebago. (FYI, the first census that William Phelan appears in is also the 1855 Wisconsin census in the town of Fond du Lac.) I’m not aware of an Eldorado plat earlier than 1862, but that is the first map on which I see both Michael and Terrence on their respective properties, although Michael had owned his farm eight years earlier in 1850.  

Both men married in Fond du Lac.  In 1852 Michael married Julia Clohesy, a girl from home, and in 1854 Terrence married Anastasia Phelan, a girl from home.  My 2G grandmother Julia Clohesy is said to have emigrated with her brother Thomas Clohesy, who also had a farm in Eldorado.  Later, there were at least four marriages between my Fond du Lac ancestors and the Fox family.

Terrence Fox is said to be from Garnagale, Co. Kilkenny (although his baptismal record says Goresgrove), and his wife Anastasia Phelan was born in the neighboring townland Kildrinagh – all in that same area!

I don’t know the circumstances of Anastasia Phelan’s emigration, but Terrence Fox didn’t marry her until she was in Fond du Lac.  Since Anastasia was from Kildrinagh, I asked a Fox descendant if she was related to William Michael Phelan, whose 1819 baptismal record lists Kildrinagh as his residence (although his bio and your great grandfather Kyran’s baptismal record say Goresgrove).  We agreed that although she didn’t know how, there must be some kind of relation.  

According to a Fox family tree, Anastasia’s parents were Richard Phelan and Mary Lanigan of Kildrinagh, with known siblings James (no info beyond baptism record) and Margaret Phelan. This tree says that Margaret also emigrated and married Michael Reilly from County Kilkenny in Albany, N.Y and came to live in Empire, Fond du Lac County in 1853.

You probably have seen William Phelan’s 2 May 1819 baptismal record (Urlingsford parish, parents  Michael Phelan and Martha Colclough, residence Kildrinagh, sponsors Robert Phelan, Catherine Bowden). As you know, your great grandfather Kyran Phelan’s Aug 1821 baptismal record (parents Michael Phelan and Martha Colclough, sponsors Patrick Campion and Mary Reade) lists the residence Goresgrove.  But we know how near Goresgrove is to Kildrinagh!

That’s a great William Michael Phelan bio from “The History of Fond du Lac County, Wisconsin” (1880), isn’t it?  As you know, the bio said that William married Margaret Norton in 1853 in the city of Buffalo (no indication if this is Buffalo, N.Y. or Buffalo, Wisconsin), daughter of Michael and Honoria M. Norton, “born in Forkhill near Gores Grove.”  You may have already seen Michael Norton on the 1849 Griffith’s Valuation for Forekill, and Michael Naughton on the 1827 Tithe Record for Forekill.

What was the name of the cousin you said came out with William Michael Phelan?  

Anyway, that’s quite enough for now!  Look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers,

Joan Stewart Smith

Los Angeles

 

 

 

I'm reading about your great "family reunion" here, almost a year later, and wondered if the local Forekill folks could give me some help. My own Irish relative, my great-great grandfather Patrick Henry Rafter (1833-1870) most likely came from Callan. I am interested in other Rafter families from earlier times to see about connections with mine. I recently corresponded with the violinist Patrick Rafter, because of this irelandxo.com website and its forums, and he was helpful about his family, who are from Threecastles in Odagh, I think. The reason I'm writing here is because I came across this fascinating will from 1726 written by Ignatius Rafter, who was a "gent" from Kilkenny City and had various properties there, but also three in Kilkenny County, which are written, as close as I can make out even though the handwriting is very good, as ones he leased from Lord Kerrin in Cahemegeal, Crossgrane, and Forekill. So Forekill I have found, and a few of you live there! Do you recognize the other two? Could "Crossgrane" have something to do with Grain, also in your neighborhood? I imagine poor Ignatius' family never hung on to this land as he was writing his will from...Four Courts Marshalsea debtors' prison in Dublin! Thanks for any ideas you may have. (I just realized I can attach a file, so I've attached the part of the will with the place names (they are in the first two lines at the top).

Sharon Olson, Lawrenceville, New Jersey

One correction, should be Lord Ikerrin, not Lord Kerrin...

Hi Sharon,

I'm not a resident of the Forekill area, but I most likely had ancestors who lived there.  I can't answer your questions, but I can add some context.  Your comment made me curious about previous ownership of Forekill, so I checked the Down Survey (1656-58).  I found "Foorkile" – the same shape – in the map of the parish of Cloghmantagh, Fartagh and Jerpoint Abbey, Barony of Cranagh, Kilkenny.  On the map (attached), it says, "Foorkile part of Garnageale Lord Ikerin."

I've read that the Viscounts Ikerrin (Butlers who became Earls of Carrick in 1748) had land confiscated during the Cromwell years. Because the will excerpt you posted was 1726, it sounds as if Lord IKerrin was able to keep the Forekill land.  After that, I don't know anything about ownership of this land until the Griffith's Valuation (mid-1800s) when residents leased from "Chas. Gore Mitchell, Esq." and subleased from each other. As you probably noted, there aren't any Rafters listed for Forekill in the Griffith's Valuation  (mid-1800s) or Tithe records (1833). 

Perhaps another person in this group knows more and can also answer your question about where Cahemegeal and Crossgrane are, the other lands Ignatius Rafter leased from Lord Ikerrin, according to the 1726 will.  

I am also curious about "Chas. Gore Mitchell" from the GV, who would seem to be a descendant of Captain Charles Gore, who apparently was granted the Garryhiggin Castle in nearby Gore's Grove during the Cromwellian years. 

Joan Stewart Smith, Los Angeles

Dear Joan,

Thanks so much for taking the time to send this helpful information. I will sort it out somehow, and yes, it would be great if the locals recognize the other two locations. 

There seems to be a connection between my Rafters and the Rafter family of Kilkenny, specifically the one of William Rafter, the father of the actress Kitty Clive. William fought in the battle of the Boyne and had to flee because he was on the wrong side. He was eventually pardoned by Queen Anne and married and settled in London, where he had numerous children including Kitty and a brother of hers, unfortunately one who never married, but his name was James. In Ignatius Rafter's will he wants all his money from the rents of the land to go to his nephew James in London, so I am thinking it's very possible this is the same family, and that he is William Rafter's brother, who stayed back in Kilkenny but obviously got into money troubles himself. Kitty's brother James was always trying to research the family's land back in Ireland, of course, a common theme in many Irish families!

I thought I'd share this part of the story so you might see where I am going with this. Identifying the lands Ignatius collected rents for probably won't lead anywhere, but it's fun to assemble the picture.

Sharon

Hi Jon P. Bergin,

Somehow I overlooked your 23 Sep 2018 message to me in this comment stream.  As you recall, you were looking for info about Sylvester Bergin. Sorry for missing it, and here I am almost two years later.  I will send you a reply via the email address you gave.  

Cheers,

Joan Stewart Smith in Los Angeles

 

 

 

 

Dear Joan Stewart Smith,

I just read your reply again and think I now have the answer to my original question. In mentioning the holding of Lord Ikerrin known as Garnageale I realize now that this is an alternate spelling of Carnageale, which I had read as Cahemegeal...! So of course looking at it again, it appears more like Carnageale. I am attaching this section from the History and Antiquities of the Diocese of Ossory vol. 2 which covers Lord Ikerrin's holdings as Foorkill, Carnageale, AND Crossgrain (or Crossgreanie...variant spellings!).

So I think I'm done here, thanks so much. Who knows where this will lead?!

Sharon

Sharon, thanks for that attachment from "History and Antiquities of the Diocese of Ossory vol. 2." Your comments on this post prompted me to look more deeply into the history of the Forekill area, so I am grateful.  Good luck with your Rafter research!  

Joan