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Hartnett's Dry Goods Store Kilmallock

WexfordKilmallock (Wexford)

Hi, My husband and I will be visiting Ireland in June 2015 and I would love to find the location of my Grandfather's parents shop in Kilmallock. His name was William B. Hartnett. Born on December 13, 1874 in Listowel I believe, the youngest of 5 children. His parents had a China, Glass and Earthenware shop in Kilmallock in the 1880's. Theirnames were Lawrence (or Laurence) Hartnett 1842-1895 and Eliza Walsh Hartnett. Don't have her date of birth but found an Eliza Hartnett on the 1901 census. 64 years, widow whos residence was listed as a shop in Kilmallock. I have a picture of the couple (my great-grandparents) standing outside the shop with the name Hartnett over the door.Don't have any information on the Walsh side of the family but did look on the Postal Directory of Munster 1893 and found S.B. Walsh and sons. Think that stands for Stephen Barry Walsh. Perhaps related to Eliza. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

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22 replies

Are you sure that your William was born in Listowel, which is in Co. Kerry ?

There's a likely match for his baptism in Co. Limerick on the baptism indexes on RootsIreland under Kilfinnane RC parish. This parish is based just south east of the town of Kilmallock.

Edit : there's an extracted civil birth record for William on Family Search, with references - volume 20 page 346, but there doesn't seem to be an matching entry for this on the BMD Index on FamilySearch, but think the GRO should be able to locate the detail if you wish to order a cert. The registration district should be Kilmallock, and the birth may have been registered either 1874, or 1875.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

William's birth seems to be registered under Harnett - the references match that extracted record :

Name : William Harnett
Event Type : Birth
Registration Year : 1874
Registration District : Kilmallock
Volume : 20 / Page : 346

You can use these details to order a research cert from the GRO, let me know if you require some notes on how to order these..

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

 A place of birth was not indicated for him but those who I think were his older siblings were listed as Listowel, Kerry so I just made that assumption. Very possible he was born in Kilmallock. I know he worked in Cork for several years before coming to the U.S. in 1901.  I have letters of recommendation he recieved from two Cork employers. I believe his mother was still alive when he immigrated and perhaps still lived in Kilmallock in the early 1900's.   Thanks very much for your reply. 

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Do you have a death cert for Lawrence ?

This might give an address for him to help locate where the shop was. Any directory entries I've seen for him just have 'Kilmallock'

I dont know if you've looked in to later details for Eliza, but it certainly looks like she either died before 1911, or left Ireland, as there's no sign of her that I can see on the 1911 census returns. There's nothing likely for her death showing in Kilmallock district, but close to her reported 1901 age and in the general area is a possible match in Newcastle district, which is based in Co. Limerick a bit to the west of Kilmallock district.  The index references are as follows :

Name : Eliza Harnett
Event Type : Death
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr-Jun 1903
Registration District: Newcastle
Reported Age: 70   (estimated year of birth 1833)
Volume : 5 / Page : 342

I had a look for a possible marriage for Lawrence and Eliza but didn't spot anything that looked correct. They didn't help with all their moving around... maybe Lawrence had a previous occupation that was the reason for this ?
A birth cert for one of the children should help with Lawrence's occupation... (RC baptism records dont usually show occupations)

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Perhaps towards the end of her life she lived with one of her children. I think if my research is correct that their names were Patrick John, birthplace Cork, 5/26/1867, John, Listowel, Kerry, 5/19/1869, Elizabeth Anne, Listowel, Kerry, 1/1/1871 and Mary Ellen, Listowel, Kerry, 11/22/1872. Below is a picture of the shop of Eliza and Lawrence. Thanks again for taking the time to help research this!

 

 

IrelandXO member

Sorry, No death certificate

IrelandXO member

how about  this building as a possible match ?

kilmallock-sars_st

 

It's the right layout of doors and windows, although the ground floor windows look smaller, but the buildings either side fit your photo - one on the left slghtly lower, the one to the right slighter taller. ... This is on Sarsfield St., Killmallock Town,

Here's a link to this same view on Google maps

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

a comparison between the key items on the old and new photos :

old_newe_sarfld_st

(the index references for Laurence's death in case you need them for a cert are Jan-Mar 1895, Reg. District Kilmallock / Volume 5 / Page 248 )

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Wow, this is amazing. Looks like a match to us. Very cool. Thanks so much. Can't wait to get there and see it in person.

IrelandXO member

I found a little more detail on that Stephen Barry Walsh (census 1901), his wife's first names were Jane Elizabeth and they were both born Co. Limerick and seem to have died in 1901 and 1911. The shop continued trading under the name 'S.B. Walsh'. On the 1911 census and in later more detailed directories the business is listed as being at Sarsfield St., Kilmallock. They seem to have been a general store, as they are listed under several categories - e.g. in 1927 under Boot Warehouse, China Dealers, Coal Merchants, Confectioners, Motor Engineers & Garages, Ironmongers, Hardware Merchants, Grocers, Cycle Agents and Tobacconists

below a side by side old and new photo of that probable match ..

old_new_01

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks very much. Do you believe that S.B. Walsh and Jane Elizabeth were in fact Eliza's parents? I really had nothing to go on but the Walsh last name which here anyway is quite common. Also since my grandfather William's middle initial was B (no record of what that stood for) was perhaps Barry after S.B. but that was a reach on my part. Especially, since I also found a John Bennett Walsh from Listowel 1846.   Were the Hartnett and Walsh shops one in the same or just on the same street?  I only started this research, branching off the Hartnett name since that was all I knew from my mother, but if in fact this Walsh is my great grandmother's family it opens up more info than I hoped to obtain. I have no other family to gain family history from as my mother (William B's daughter) 1917 - 2007 had only 2 brothers. One passed in 78 with no chidren and the 2nd was lost very young during WWII also no children.  I sincerely appreciate all the time you're devoting to this. Having these specificis will make our visit so much more meaningful. 

IrelandXO member

I'd say S.B. Walsh and family might possibly be related... rather than any definite connection.

Eliza is listed on the census returns as born Co. Limerick, so I'd stick to that area, rather than looking towards Listowel and Co. Kerry at this stage. Ideally the next step would be a search for her marriage to Laurence cert to show father's names etc, but as mentioned earlier, this is not showing up so far..  pity Laurence died before the 1901 census, so we dont have a definite county of birth for him

I think the next step might be to find out as much as possible about the family from the birth certs for the children and see if any clues can be picked up there, e.g. occupations informants addresses, to see if any of these help locate the marriage - I wonder why they moved around so much ?  Laurence doesn't see to fit as a casual labourer, so think there might have been another reason.

There's no real evidence for this theory, but for some reason I suspect both Laurence and Eliza originated in or near Kilmallock, and once they had earned a few pounds they moved back to their home area to set up their own business and settle down..

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Your theory sounds very probable. I will gather up as much as I can on the children and see if I find any hints. That S.B. connection as her parents didn't seem to fit to me either. Perhaps her cousins or something since there were Walsh's on the 1901 census who seemed grouped without Eliza. Again, thanks very much

IrelandXO member

Did come across a marriage for Elizabeth Walsh married- Kilmallock 1865 Vol 5 page 519. The dates work. This was from www.familysearch.org

IrelandXO member

Another one Eliza Walsh, marriage 1865 Kilmallock Vol.10 page 213

IrelandXO member

unfortunatly I can rule out both of those using extracted civil marriage records on Family Search. This collection includes many, but not all, civil records up to about 1880, and most of these mention at least part of the index references - e.g. page or volume number. The location on these is often a sub-district, and the page number can sometimes appear in this.

Eliza Walsh (1) married Charles Donegan (page 213) - see here

Eliza Walsh (2) married John Ryan (page 519) - see here

bear in mind she could also have married as Lizzie or Bessie

edit : the extracted collection is at this link - dont pay much attention to the dates in the heading. There are a few earlier or later marriages generally from parishes, but the civil records cover between 1864 and about 1880, or back to 1845 for non-Catholic marriages

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi, Still trying to find out what happened to Eliza Hartnett after the 1901 census had her as living above the shop in Kilmallock. I can't remember exactly how but I found an Elizabeth Hartnett 71 on the 1911 census as guest of an Edward and Elizabeth Anne Doyle, Queens Co. Portarlington South. Eliza had a daughter named Elizabeth Anne. This couple have a child named Laurence same as Eliza's husband. May be a coincidence but this Edward was a "station master" and while searching the 1911 census I also came up with a John Hartnett a "station master" (Eliza had a son John born 1869 - 1934) from 2 Monabracher, Limerick. 2 of his sons have the names of Patrick and William same as Eliza's other 2 sons. William my grandfather came to states in 1901 and I know Patrick lived here as well. Have not been able to find any trace of John in the US. I do know John J Hartnett died on December 9, 1934 as I have an old mass card but it doesn't indicate place of death May be a stretch but thought perhaps Eliza went to be with her daughter Elizabeth Anne by 1911 since no trace of her in Kilmallock after 1901 census. And the fact that Edward Doyle and John Hartnett were both station masters, there could be a link. Curious if you think it's a possibility. Thanks.

IrelandXO member

Hi, Still trying to find out what happened to Eliza Hartnett after the 1901 census had her as living above the shop in Kilmallock. I can't remember exactly how but I found an Elizabeth Hartnett 71 on the 1911 census as guest of an Edward and Elizabeth Anne Doyle, Queens Co. Portarlington South. Eliza had a daughter named Elizabeth Anne. This couple have a child named Laurence same as Eliza's husband. May be a coincidence but this Edward was a "station master" and while searching the 1911 census I also came up with a John Hartnett a "station master" (Eliza had a son John born 1869 - 1934) from 2 Monabracher, Limerick. 2 of his sons have the names of Patrick and William same as Eliza's other 2 sons. William my grandfather came to states in 1901 and I know Patrick lived here as well. Have not been able to find any trace of John in the US. I do know John J Hartnett died on December 9, 1934 as I have an old mass card but it doesn't indicate place of death May be a stretch but thought perhaps Eliza went to be with her daughter Elizabeth Anne by 1911 since no trace of her in Kilmallock after 1901 census. And the fact that Edward Doyle and John Hartnett were both station masters, there could be a link. Curious if you think it's a possibility. Thanks.

IrelandXO member

Here's a link to that Doyle/Harnet/Cusack household, in 1911 It does look a promising match for your Elizabeth - right county of birth, and age is close enough for a match. Based on the census form it doesn't look like she's related to the others in the household, as she shown as a Visitor, rather than family.

She may just have been staying a night or two near the railway station on her way somewhere, possibly an acquaintance of one of the sons..  Interestingly the servant is also Limerick born, whereas everyone else in the house is shown as born Co. Cork.

I'll have another look for a possible death for Elizabeth after 1911, starting with this area...

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

I tried to reply a few times yesterday, but the captha security check seemed to be having problems.... I had another search for Elizabeth's death, since it now seems she was alive in 1911, and again the best match on the BMD Index seems to be a death in Newcastle District in Co. Limerick in 1920. The Index references are as follows :

Name: Elizabeth Hartnett     
Event Type: Death
Quarter and Year: Jul-Sep 1920
Registration District: Newcastle
Reported Age:  83 (est. year of birth 1837)
Volume :  5 / Page :  287

There are a number of Harnett, without the middle 't'  births, marriages, and deaths in the Newcastle area but this Hartnett is the best fit anywhere in Ireland that I can see for your Elizabeth so might be worth following up, as the informant could be a relative of the deceased and help with further searches. The place of death etc might also be useful.

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Tried to reply and not sure if it went through so sorry if I'm repeating. Found that info earlier and so I checked the map of Ireland and saw a Newcastle in Northern Ireland and couldn't imagine what she would have been doing up there and concluded it was the wrong Elizabeth. Didn't realize there was a Newcastle in Co. Limerick. Will try and follow up on that info. In your opinion in those days would she be returned to her home area for burial? Did people have family plots? Again, many thanks for all your help.

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Hello I am also looking for my grandfather who would be William Hartnett who married Elizabeth Hannrehan. We know William had 2 sister Lizzie and Josie but not sure of any other family. My mother and her sisters were living on a farm in feonagh co limerick. My mother said her father William died when she was about 5 so that would be 52 years ago.

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