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Waterford

Hi

I amtrying to trace my grandfather's family. My grandfather was EDMUND JOSEPH HAYES and he was born in Co.Waterford on 29th May 1896. Unfortunately, I do not know which parish.

His father's name was also EDMUND JOSEPH HAYES but I do not have any other information on the family. I cannot find any birth record in the Ancestry database nor any records in the 1901 or 1911 Irish censuses.

I know my grandfather joined the UK merchant navy in 1918 and emigrated to America in 1925.

I really would like to know more about his early years in Ireland and his family history e.eg mother's name, details of any siblings, where they lived etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

IrelandXO member

8 replies

There a number of births for the name Edmond or Edward Hayes around the right time in districts that covered parts of Co. Waterford .. it might be nessecary to try to locate a few more clues to be sure you follow the correct Hayes family....

Do you know where you Edmond married and died ?

Certs for these could help, e.g. a death cert might include parents names, a marriage cert should usually show father's occupation which could help locate him on census returns etc

edit : I tried a quick search of the English 1901 and 1911 census as well as a recheck just in case of the Irish returns - but also did not spot anything promising. None listed as born Co. Waterford but a few born or living in neighbouring Co. Tipperary - these might be be worth further checking

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks for the quick response. I have the following additional information:

EDMUND JOSEPH HAYES married ETHEL MYRA WILLIAMS on 9th Novenber, 1921 in Swansea, Wales. On the marriage certificate his father was shown as EDMUND JOSEPH HAYES (deceased) and his father's occupation was Passenger Guard Railways.I do not know when his father had died.

Interestingly, I have a handwritten copy of his US Navy Draft Registration Card completed in 1942 which shows his name as EDWARD JOSEPH HAYES and confirms his date of birth as 29th May, 1896 in Co.Waterford. Obviously, this confuses the birth certificate issue - was it EDMUND or EDWARD ? Furthermore, was his father EDWARD or EDMUND ?

Not sure if this helps?

IrelandXO member

Edward and Edmond are variations of the same name, so I'd always search for both.

Even though the date his gives for his birth is the same on those two records, I'l treat with caution - ages and dates are often inaccurate, also when searching I'd leave out the middle names, as these often dont appear on births or baptisms etc (I dont think his CR10 merchant navy form had a middle name).

The BMD Index lists names of registration districts, so for Co. Waterford the ones to check are : Carrick-On-Suir *, Clogheen *, Clonmel *, Dungarvan, Kilmacthomas, Lismore, Waterford * (city) and Youghal *

Those with * covers parts of other counties.

Maybe your William was born in an area close to the Waterford  Co. border, or the family lived for a time in the City of County of Waterford after he was born ?

I think the first clue to follow up on is the father - I'll do another search for focusing on the occupation..

Where in the US did Edward/Edmund jnr die, have you found a death cert and/or obit. or headstone ? (US certs often include names of both parents, and obit. or headstone might show a more detailed place of birth)

If the date of birth he gave is accurate then this index record is defintely worth following up, right year/quatrter, and the district covers parts of Co. Tipperary and Co. Waterford   :

Name :  Edward Hayes
Event Type : Birth
Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1896
Registration District: Carrick-On-Suir
Volume :4 / Page :484

I'll see if that Hayes family appears in Carrick area in 1901/1911 and see if it's possible to find the father's name.

p.s. there is a railway line and station close to Carrick on Suir

 

 

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

there are two possible matches on the index of RootsIreland (pay-website) a civil birth of an Edward Hayes in Portroe sub-district in 1896, and an RC baptism of an Edward Hayes in Portlaw parish, the same year. These may relate to the same child.

The father's name is matching Ed on a search for the civil record, so probably Edward or Edmund, but I cant get a match for father's name on the baptism, It could be difficult to read on the original.

The town of Portlaw is located north west of Waterford city on the road to Carrick on Suir, and is close to the border with Co. Tipperary. It's also in Carrick on Suir registration district - so fits that BMD Index reference I mentioned. You can view the record transcripts on RootsIreland, but for a one-off cert it would be less costly to order just that birth cert. These cost € 4. Let me know if you need instruction on how to do this..

 

EDIT : after further checking I dont think that 'Portroe' civil birth transcript is the correct one, it seems to be located in North Co. Tipperary, so quite far from Co. Waterford. The Portlaw baptism and the civil birth in the BMD Index though I still believe is a good possibilty for your Edmund/Edward - so believe a research cert is the best next step

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks again for your help. The Edmund v Edward name issue would certainly account for my lack of progress to date - I have not done any searches for Edward! The birth in Carrick-On-Suir looks very promising and I have already sent off to the GRO for a photocopy of the birth certificate.

I cannot find the baptism record in Portlaw parish you mentioned (also looks promising) - but I will have another look on my Ancestry account.

I think I may have made some significant progress based on the information you gave me as I found a record in the 1911 Irish census relating to no.6 Stonehouse Kilmeadan Waterford showing Edward Hayes aged 14 staying with the Lyons family. I was already aware that there were relatives called Lyons somewhere in the equation, and further investigation showed that the wife - Mary Lyons - was in fact Mary Hayes prior to her marriage in 1907. It may be that Edward was a child from a previous marriage or even that she was unmarried when she had him in 1896. She could of couse be an aunt or other relation - I will wait for the birth certificate before jumping to conclusions!

The birth certificate should also provide more information about his father but I have noted that there was a railway station in Portlaw up to 1963 - part of the Waterford to Limerick line so there are possibilities there.

I feel very encouraged that we are on the right track as all the data so far is consistently based around the Portlaw/Carrick-On-Suir region of Co.Waterford.

For your information I am going on holiday tomorrow but when I return on 30th March I will let you know the outcome of the birth certificate information.

Regards

 

 

 

 

IrelandXO member

I was wondering about the possibility of Edward's mother being unmarried also - see this Hayes household on the 1901 census at Queen St. in Portlaw. If this was the case he could have 'made up' details of his father for later records... which would explain the lack of success in searches up to now.

p.s. that possible baptism was on the index of RootsIreland (pay-website), I dont think Ancestry have parish records for that area.

 

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Update of progress:
Edward Hayes birth certificate (24 May 1896 ) shows him being born at 24 Queen St.Portlaw -(which is the same address as the 1901 census record you mentioned).His mother is shown as MARGARET HAYES although the registration is made by his grandmother Julia Hayes.Julia is one of the people in the 1901 census at 24 Queen St. As there was no Margaret in the 1901 census I made further enquiries and found a birth certificate for Margaret Hayes dated 31 January 1874 at Kilmeadan to parents Michael Hayes and Julia Walsh. I also found a death record for Margaret Hayes dated Jul-Sep 1900 in Carrick-on-Suir which would seem to fit.
As we suspected there was no father recorded on the birth certificate. Mary Hayes shown on the 1901 census record must have been Margaret's sister and in 1907 she married Martin Lyons which explains why Edward was living with them at 6 Stonehouse Kilmeadan in the 1911 census.
One interesting fact is the 1901 census at 24 Queen St.shows an Eddy Miller age 4 living there- could this be Edward Hayes?Mary Hayes wedding certificate shows her living in Darrigal Portlaw in 1907 and one of the witnesses is William Hayes. I have found a William Hayes in the 1911 census living at 2 Darrigal kilmeadan and he has children called Julia and Michael.
It is all looking very promising and I now that I have proved the extended family ties to the Portlaw area I wondered if I should focus on the parish records for this area. Do you know where the records are kept and what information might be available for me to confirm my findings and possibly obtain further information?
I am really pleased with my discoveries and look forward to sharing them with my 4 siblings.Once again,thank you for your help which has been invaluable.

IrelandXO member

Transcripts for RC Parish of Portlaw are included on RootsIreland (pay-website), and cover baptisms back to 1809 and marriage to 1837, so if the family had it's origins in this parish, then it should be possible to trace them back further. RC parish records for Carrick on Suir go back even earlier to the 1780s, although there are gaps in these.

The NLI (National Library) have microfilms for most Catholic registers in Ireland, which you can view on the premises. They are in the process of imaging this entire collection, and making these availabale to view online, hopefully by summer this year, so you could wait until then. (Note these are in the form of images only, so you will need to search through as you would a microfilm). The NLI film for Portlaw RC parish (or Portlaw & Ballyduff) covers the same dates for baptisms as the RootsIreland transcripts, but they include marriages back to 1805.

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

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