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McGuire, John (20) and Sarah (21) from Tyrone to Adelaide Australia in 1855

Tyrone

Hi to all who may have information or will appreciate that which I can supply.

John, according to Adelaide paper articles was from a well known Omagh farming family and Sarahwas the daughter of a Royal Navy Officer who was with Nelson on the "Victory" at the Battle of Trafalgar. A 2013 message indicates that from the Griffith Valuationsa Patrick McGuire had land in Alderwood, Aghalurcher Co Tyrone. They sailed from Birkenhead Mersey on March 23 1855 aboard the ship "Grand Triannon" (1049 tons) which reached Adelaide on June 10 1855. The ages from the passenger list would indicate birth dates in about 1834, but the funeral notice for John dated Oct 15 1904 gives his age as 71 and a residence address of Lipson StPort Adelaide. I am hoping for further information about John and Sarah's parents and grand parents etcetera.

An Oct 2013 thread mentions the posibility of marriage in 1855, obviously early, and the ages corroborate that report. In Adelaide a son James was born on July 13 1856 followed by another Phillip in '58 and, most probably, a daughter Catherine in 1869. James lives till June 1927 a month before he is due to retire as SA Railways Commissioner after a 57 year career that began as a station assistant at age 14. The information re Phillip and Catherine is not absolute yet, but the May 5 1908death notice for Phillip (50) says 2nd son of John McGuire and for Catherine the July 27 1894 states age as 25 so the birth year of about 1869 looks good. Sarah is likely to have died early as a Mary (79) dies 16/4/1910 as John's widow.

For James the records are very good. In August 1882 he marries Mary, of the Education Dept, and surviving J A O'Sullivan daughter. John Patrick O'Sullivan is born on May 27 1883;appears to have also worked as a Railways stationmaster, and is buried along with wife Elsie Maud (51) who died on 23/9/1940 and presumably a daughter Mary Eugenie (33) who died as a Kent on 25/8/47, before his passing at 75 on 19/4/1959. Their 2nd child is Reginald Francis on 21/12/1884 who is KIA at Gallipoli in April 1915. Next on August 14 1886 is Mary Gladys who marries a Daniel J Slattery of Waterloo on June 15 1916; she dies on 11/9/1921 aged 31. On May 23 1888 a 3rd son Augustine Grant is born - best info on him is he was in Keswick on 8/12/1917 when a son Reginald Harold is born. Next is James A (my grandfather) on 24/4/1890 who has a son James Julian (29/12/1915) and Joan about 2yrs later before he dies on 1/9/1921 aged 31. March 29 1892 is 5th son Julian Edmond who is KIA 25/8/1918. October 21 1893 and Stanislaus Geoffrey arrives- he is KIA in Aug 1916 in France. April 20 1895 Catherine Helen is born but dies shortly after on July 25. In 1903 on April 3 Dominic Paul is born and enjoys an interesting career as author and diplomat till passing on 15/6/1978 aged 75. If anybody wants more details etc I'm in Oz and will call you back if I get a text to 0428 400 426 or 0412 106 512. Best wishes Paddy

IrelandXO member

3 replies

Have you been able to locate John and Sarah’s death certificates? These should give you their parents names and Sarah’s maiden name. Also the fathers occupations.

I could not locate a likely marriage in 1855 in the civil indexes for marriage in Ireland.  So that suggest it was an RC ceremony which were not entered into the civil records till 1864. You might find the marriage in the RC parish records which are mostly on rootsireland (subscription). However, in general, RC marriages at that time didn’t record the parents names, so not always that helpful. However getting a parish or townland will narrow your search.

You mention a McGuire family in Alderwood. Do you have specific information linking to that family, or is it just speculative? (Maguire/McGuire is by far the most common surname in the Tyrone/Fermanagh area).

Looking at the tithe applotment records for 1833, I see a Patrick McGuire listed as having land in Alderwood:

http://www.cotyroneireland.com/tithe/aghalurcher.html

Looking at the valuation records for Alderwood in 1860, I see James McGuire on plot 13 with a house, outbuildings and 32 acres. Next door on plot 14 is Patrick who has land only (so he lives somewhere else, perhaps with James). He had just under 4 acres. The revaluation records show Patrick leaving in 1862 and being replaced by James McMahon. James McGuire is replaced by Patrick McGuire in 1893. He in turn is replaced by William Hall in 1895.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni

No McGuire families in Alderwood by the 1901 census.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Fivemiletown/Alderwood/

Aghalurcher RC baptisms start in 1835, so you might just find John McGuire baptism there. The RC parish records are on-line free on the National Library site:

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes

 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks a lot Elwyn.  Your input has already helped with the discovery of new information. Have looked at some of the Aghalurcher Parish maps to learn that Fivemiletown is closest to Alderwood where the McGuires had the land holdings you discovered.  Of considerable significance is that a Sth Aust site that gives free access to some B D M record details shows a Sarah the wife of John McGuire as dying in Adelaide sometime in 1855 shortly after her arrival. And further to that the birth of James, ' the commisssioner', in July of 1856 declares John as the father and a Mary Grant as mother. Further to that the record is that John McGuire did not marry Mary Grant till 1862 and she lived till 16/4/1910 at age 79.

 The land holding details look good in that the names of James, Patrick and John keep showing up in the given names especially of the older sons. Perhaps Patrick of the 'almost 4 acres was the son of James and inherited the 32 when James retired / passed away. In mentioning Alderwood I am relying on information supplied by a couple of other investigators in about March 2013 so there is nothing 'specific'.  An Adelaide paper report of about June 1927 when the 'Comm' was buried claimed that his parents migrated from from Ireland in the early1850s from Omagh in Tyrone where his father came from a well known farming family. It also stated that she was the daughter of a Royal Navy Officer who had been on the Victory with Nelson during the Trafalgar Battle.  To my way of thinking I'd expect a Royal Navy Officer to not be a Catholic, which if so gives light to the possibility of the union being a bit outside the norm and possibly a short notice event.  All the links will get a workout as and when time permits.   Cheers   Paddy

IrelandXO member

The officers on the Victory names are probably all well recorded. You could contact the RN at Portsmouth and ask them. Alternatively try the Society for Nautical Research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Nautical_Research

According to this article, the sailing officers comprised 1 Captain (Nelson), 1 Executive Officer (the senior lieutenant) 8 other lieutenants and 21 midshipmen. Some of the names are in the attached link.

In addition the marines would have had their own officers. (The sailors primary duty was to sail the ship, the marines did the fighting).

http://www.h2g2.com/entry/A87778264

Not sure about whether there would still have been any restrictions on Catholics serving as officers in the RN in 1805. Nearly all the Penal Laws were long repealed. I suspect there were RC officers by then but you would need an expert to check on that. 100 years later, Ernest Shackleton’s trusty lieutenant was Lt. Tom Creane a long serving RC RN Officer, from Kerry.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

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