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Researching Robinson and Donnelly

TyroneDungannon (Tyrone)

My maternal great grandparents were Thomas ROBINSON and Rose DONNELLY Robinson. The family was Roman Catholic. I believe they married in Dungannon in 1875. They had at least two daughters, both of whom immigrated to the USA in 1893/1894 and settled in the Philadelphia, PA area. Susan Marie ROBINSON was born either 1875 or 16 May 1881 (the latter from her US Naturalization papers). Margaret ROBINSON, who is my grandmother, was born either 1877 or 5 July 1882 (the latter per her death certificate). The difference in birth years stems from records available on Ancestry.com. There is a record for Susan Robinson born 19 Dec 1875 in Dungannon to Thomas Robinson (birthplace Derryloughan) and Rosey Donnelly Robinson. There is another record for Margaret Robinson born 11 Jul 1877 in Cranlome, Dungannon. I have found no Irish birth records on Ancestry or elsewhere for either woman in 1881 or 1882.

I have no specific information on Thomas Robinson or Rose Donnelly Robinson. I found a Thomas Robinson in the Ireland Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958, born abt 1846 and died in Dungannon in 1901. I also found a Thomas Robinson, who I believe to be my great grandfather, on the 1876 Land Owners in Ireland, Ulster, Tyrone County, living Drumhorrick, Dungannon.

Did Thomas and Rose Donnelly Robinson have other children? When and where were they born and when did they both die? Where are they buried? Who were their parents and siblings?

I would appreciate any help or assistance in learning more about my family. Thank you in advance for whatever information may be forthcoming.

 

IrelandXO member

7 replies

Hello Joseph,

I went to www.rootsireland.ie and found a marriage record for Thomas Robinson and Rose Donnelly in 1875 in the Registrar District of Dungannon.

I found both baptismal and birth records for Susan born 1876 and Margaret born 1877. These records can be found on the Co. Tyrone genealogy site.

You will have to pay to view them but it is only about €5 each and you don't have to sign your firstborn away in membership fees.  You can also perform searches on the site for free, and so try to trace back Rose and Thomas. their marriage cert may contain their parent's names.

Hope this helps you,

Regards,

Anne Dennehy

IrelandXO member

Thomas & Rose?s marriage is registered in Dungannon 1875 Volume 1, page 747. Thomas?s surname has been spelled ROBBISON but possibly that is a transcription error. I would be inclined to order a copy of that civil certificate to see what his townland was at that time and then use that as a basis for further investigation on where he lived. For example if it was Derryloughan then it would tie in with the birth you have found. You?ll also get the couples fathers names and occupations from the certificate.

Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church so that would be the place to look for her baptism and that of any siblings.

I have looked at the Griffiths revaluation records for both Derryloughan and Cranlome and there?s no sign of Thomas residing there at any point in the period  1875 to 1882 and beyond. Looks therefore as though any stay there was brief. Probably he was a farm worker/weaver who moved around a bit.

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Val12b/Search.aspx

To search for other children to the couple, I?d search the RC parish records for Clonoe (Includes Derryloiughan) and Killeeshil (includes Cranlome). Search on the Rootsireland site Anne has told you about, leaving the childs name balnk but entering the parents names. See what comes up. Alternatively PRONI in Belfast has the following records for Clonoe & for Killeeshil:

R.C. Clonoe Baptisms, 1810-16 and 1822-81; marriages, 1806-16 and 1823-81; deaths, 1806-16.           

R.C. Killeeshil Baptisms, 1816-80; marriages, 1816-83; deaths, 1816- 75 and 1880-81.

Later records will still be held by the parish.

Ahoghill AntrimIrelandXO Volunteer

Joseph:

In addition to the comments from Anne and Elywn, I wanted to mention that there is a death index record for a Rose Robinson in the Dungannon registration district for the July-September 1881 quarter. You can write to the GRO www.groireland.ie  for a copy of the death record. Fill out their form provide the quarter/year of death, registration district and the volume and page number ( 1 and 339). Costs around 4 euros.

Roger McDonnell

 

Name: Rose Robinson
Event Type: Death
Event Date: Jul - Sep 1881
Event Place: Dungannon, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1881
Registration District: Dungannon
Age: 38
Birth Year (Estimated): 1843
Mother's Maiden Name:  
Volume Number: 1
Page Number: 339
Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

I obtained the civil marriage record information from rootsireland and it lists Thomas' address as Ferlagan and Rose's as Cramlum. I know Rose's home is misspelled and should be Cranlome. I assume "Ferlagan" may be someone's attempt to spell Derryloughan. They were married at the Dungannon Roman Catholic Church in the Parish of Drumglass.

Thomas is listed as a farmer on the marriage record and the birth/baptism records for Margaret and Susan.

Both Susan Robinson's and Margaret Robinson's Birth and Baptism Records differ in the Parish/District. The church baptism has address of Cranlome and Parish/District of Killeshill, County Tyrone. The civil birth record has address of Cranlome with Parish/District of Clonavaddy.

Thanks for your assistance.

Regards,

Joe Wechselberger

 

IrelandXO member

Roger,

Thank you for this information. I will have to pursue this. I may need to order the actual record as you advise. On the marriage record, Rose Donnelly is listed as being 26 in January 1875, which would make her birth year around 1848. Therefore, this Rose Robinson may not be her. I found a baptismal record for a Rose Donnelly for 1852 with the address of Lisnagleer Parish/District Donaghmore, father John Donnelly, mother Sarah Donnelly. I found another for 1844 with the address of Radergan Parish/District Beragh father John Donnelly, mother Margaret Meanan. The father's name jives with the marriage record. The mother's name isn't mentioned. So, I don't know which of these may be the right one or if neither is. The death record appears to possibly belong to the Rose baptized in 1844.

I appreciate your help.

Regards,

Joe Wechselberger

 

 

IrelandXO member

Hi Anne,

I took your advice and opened an account at www.rootsireland.ie. I got copies of the 1875 marriage between Thomas Robinson and Rose Donnelly, and the birth and baptismal records for Susan (Dec 1875/Jan 1876) and Margaret (July 1877). I also searched for other children of Thomas and Rose and found none in the record database. I am convinced that Susan and Margaret are my great aunt and great grandmother, respectively, but I am concerned abou the extreme disconnect between these records and the birth dates I have on Susan's US naturalization record (16 May 1881) and Margaret's death certificate (5 Jul 1882). Susan's is particularly bothersome in that not only the year is different but the month and day is about 7 months off. Any suggestions or advice on what dates I should use on my family tree? Have you ever seen a person notly change their birth year, but also their month and day of birth?

You were right about the pay as you go being a bargain. Thank you for suggesting this line of inquiry.

Regards,

Joe Wechselberger

 

 

 

 

IrelandXO member

Joe,

I would take the birthdates shown on tombstones and census with a big grain of salt.  Time and time again this has turned out to be incorrect.

Let me explain.  When people left Ireland they were for the most part illiterate, undocumented, didn't know what age they were, had never seen their name written down anywhere.  They landed at ports of arrival and were asked all these questions.  As they couldn't read or write, their names were often spelled phonetically, their ages were guessed.  These then were the details that followed them around for the rest of their lives.

In Ireland in 1909 the old age pension was introduced and it caused mayhem among the population.  Nobody had birth certificates and didn't know what age they were.  

If you look at almost all families in the 1901 census their ages were guessed at.  However in 1909 people had to go to parish baptismal records to find their dates of birth to prove that they qualified for the old age pension.  Therefore the census of 1911 is considered to be a more accurate picture of the population.  People who had been 65 in 1901 were found to actually be in their 80's in 1911.  Technically people should have aged 10 years but they aged by up to 15 or 18 years.  They were shocked to find out just how old they were.

So I would advise you not to take your dates as gospel. Usually if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.

When you  find a record for  your ancestor (with a relatively unusual name, not a Mary Ryan etc), with the correct father's name, and the correct mothers name, in the area that you suspected they were from, then I would tend to go with that.

I fully believe the marriage record for Rose and the birth records for Susan and Margaret are correct.  I wish you all the best in tracing further back.

Regards,

Anne Dennehy

Regards,

IrelandXO member

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