GREGAN & BERKERY of Youghalarra

Hi Kerri,

Could you please post your message here (Silvermines): http://www.irelandxo.com/group/kilmore-ormond-tipperary

There are Roman Catholic church records for Silvermines (KIllaloe) available dating from 1840 for baptismal records and 1841 for marriage records. These are available at the National Library of Ireland, Pos. 2481, or the Church of Latter Day Saints, ref. no. 0926098.

Civil records are available from the General Register Office (GRO), but these only date from 1864.

RC church records are available for the Youghal Arra (Killaloe) (Youghalarra) dating from 1828 (Baptismal records) and 1820 (Marriage records). These are available at the National Library of Ireland, Pos. 2483-4.

There is article about the Nenagh workhouse called 'Emigration from the Workhouse of Nenagh Union, Co. Tipperary', 1849-1860, The Irish Ancestor, 17(1), 1985.

A book by Daniel Grace called The great famine in Nenagh poor law union Co. Tipperary, Nenagh: Relay Books, 2000, (National Library of Ireland, Ir. 94142 g 8, 230 p.

There are two books by Ignatius Murphy, one from (1800-1850) and the other (1850-1904). They are called The Diocese of Killaloe, by Four Courts Press.

You could also try checking the land records called the Tithe Applotment Books (1823-38) or the later Griffth's Valuation (1848-64). Griffith's is freely available here: www.askaboutireland.com or here: www.failteromhat.com Failte Romhat has lots of other useful links you could try looking at.

I hope this will help to get you started on your research. Hopefully, someone in the local community will know more and let you know.

Please make sure you link anyone else in your family who is interested in their Irish heritage to our site - and indeed anyone else you know of Irish heritage.

Kind regards,

Sinead Cooney

Genealogist (Ireland XO)

Hi

just a note about the catholic parish of Youghalarra.

There are two churches in the parish: Youghal( Youghalarra) and Burgess.

On the baptismal record the church where the child was baptised was recorded and not their address within the parish. This would be an indicator of which side of the parish the family lived. The Burgess side abutts the parish of the Silvermines.

The catholic parish of Youghalarra is within the civil parish of Portroe.

Today the name of Berkery is more common in the Toomevara/ Templemore area

hope that helps

Hi

I just came across the following in the introduction to THe Burgess story, A GAA history by Bridget Delaney

Ballywilliam church(Burgess) ..., the site was given by the Berkery family and located in the townland of Ballyhogan

That is very interesting.  Thank you, this has been very helpful.  If you come across any additional information please post it.

Much appreciated.

Name                          Patrick Gregan                                            

Place of birth               Parish of Burgess (North of Nenagh, south of Yougal Bay, Lough Derg). The family oral history was that he was born at Nenagh, Tipperary. I went there in 1965 but could not find any data, but the 1864 ship arrival document states that he came from Carrigatogher, which I could never locate until Google Maps appeared and is a small hamlet just out of Nenagh off a road to Limerick. It is situated in Youghalarra-Burgess RC Parish.

Date of birth               19 April 1834

Religious faith

at birth                         Catholic

Fathers name               Patrick Gregan (According to the ship arrival document his parents Patrick and Anne were still alive in 1864). Also the same on his marriage and death certificates.

Father’s Occupation    Farmer (Death Certificate)

Labourer (Marriage Certificate)

Mothers name and      Anne Gardiner (Gardner) (On ship arrival documents plus on his

 maiden name              marriage and death certificates.)

Siblings names       Michael 24 April 1830 (Baptism)

and birthdates                        

The above pre- Australia information is all I have about my great-grandfather Patrick Gregan who arrived in Sydney in 1864. He settled initially in Balmain in Sydney and used to bring out relatives from Tipperary at 15 pounds a head. The information above is from various sources, including family stories. The ship's papers has his name as Cregan and that was his name on the wooden sea chest that my grandfather kept in his backyard shed. Soon after arrival he changed his name back to Gregan. We suspect he may have been in a bit of trouble and changed his name in order to migrate, but there could be other reasons. It appears that this was a common practice, particularly for those under a cloud who migrated to the USA. Can anyone over there help me with more details? Thanks.

John,

As stated Patrick had a brother Michael baptised 25 April 1830. The original entry can be view on https://registers.nli.ie/ . On Patricks baptismal record his mother is recorded by the pet name Nancy. Interestingly there isnt a 'Gardner' as a sponsor in the records. This might suggest that Ann/ Nancy didnt have family living close by. There doesnt appear to be a marriage online for Patrick and Ann. This is not unusal for the time period as many parishes were only starting to keep written records at that time. 

There are records online for a Michael Gregan leasing land in Barbaha and Coumroe both in the parish of Youghalarra. You can view these on askaboutireland.ie and click on Griffiths Valuation.

I note a marriage of a Michael Gregan and Catherine Flaherty in 1858. It is possible that this could be Patricks brother.

If you are interested in checking local newspapers which may have reported on any trouble that Patrick may have been in , the Nenagh Guardian has been digitised and is available to view on www.irishnewsarchives.com for a  fee. The paper began publication in 1838 and is still being published today. 

The other source of information may be shipping records. These records especially to Australia usually contained details of sponsors and if you can find your gr grandfather as a sponsor this may increase your chances of finding extended family. It was common practice for members of a family to sponsor other members to emigrate. 

The petty court records available on findmypast.ie are also another good source of information and transcriptions of  headstone inscriptions for the parish are available on www.tipperarystudies.ie. ;

Thanks Tippgal, for that useful information. Much appreciated.

Regards

John

Hi Tippgal

I checked out the Nenagh Guardian and there was no reference to Patrick so I assume he did not leave under a cloud. My father told me he had asked his father about the name discrepancy and Dad's father said that his father (Patrick) had said someone had been using his name for some ilegal purposes and when he got to Australia he waited a while and then changed it to Gregan. But we were not sure if he changed it in Ireland before migrating or his real name was Cregan and he changed it in Sydney if someone had been wrongly using his name here in Australia. The records indicate that his real name was Gregan, so that's a relief. Why he used Cregan at some stage will never be known. He could not read or write so it is possible that the migration official  taking down his details on departure could have made a spelling mistake or not understood his accent and Pat only found out when he arrived and someone who could read pointed out the discrepancy. Despite the lack of formal education he did reasonably well in his new homeland. One family story was that as a child  he went to a hedge school to learn but the teacher was shot by troops and he never had the opportunity to learn how to read or write.

Cheers

John

John,

here is a little about the schools in the Burgess parish from the Irish Folklore Commission https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4922150/4856533/5012173

https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4922150/4856528/5012162

https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4922150/4856532/5012167?ChapterID=4922150

Misspelling of names when people emigrated was common and was down to misinterpetation by the recorder and also many were spelt phonetically. Your ancestor may have been in trouble locally or it just may be a good story - who knows!

You might be interested to know that the local historical society are busy preparing a local history journal on the Duharra area which includes Burgess and will be available in the coming months . I am not aware of the contents at the moment however if you keep an eye on social media in particular the Arra historical and Archeological Society page on facebook. 

John, Have you participated in the Ancestry DNA program?  You are not coming up as a match to me yet and yet I am certain we are cousins. The name Gregan was corrupted in several ways on the records and in some cases can take on most unusual spellings but if you say the names out loud in what would be close to how an Irishman would pronounce it, you'll see very clearly how it came to be written in so many different ways by those recording events.  John, if you would like to message me privately through Ancestry.com I might be able to provide some information for you.  I have recorded a great amount of information from newspapers etc on the Gregans and even purchased records that turned out not to be my direct ancestors.  I many have something of use to you.

Tippgal.  I am interested in your post regarding the book by Bridget Delaney.  A Sally Delaney appears as a sponsor at one of my family's baptisms (Gregan/Berkery issue) in 1862.  I wonder if Bridget Delaney is related to her?

This is all very helpful information and I appreciate everybody's input.

skyrish2us

Hi skyrish2us. No I have not done a DNA test with Ancestry and probably won't, but I will try and find you on there. You could also contact me by email gregan.john@gmail.com. You are right about the spelling. Patrick married Margaret Madigan in Sydney on 3 February 1877. His name on the marriage certificate was spelt "Greagon" and her name was "Madiagon". In later documents - birth certificates for their children - the spelling for both was correct. In the marriage certificate they both used an "X" witnessed by the celebrant and annotated "his mark" and "her mark". I saw the same X on a document he signed when purchasing a property in Balmain. But later, on a birth certificate of 1881, he had signed the document with a proper signature so he it looks like he would have learned a bit of writing after he got married. The witnesses at the wedding were Michael Coady and Sarah McGrath. Margaret had come out from Limerick in 1866 as a 16 year old with her sister Johanna. She had a sister called Sarah, so we think Sarah must have also migrated to Australia and married a McGrath in Sydney. When I visited Nenagh in 1964 I asked at the cathedral if they had any baptismal records but the young priest said that many records had been destroyed in the Troubles. I asked around and found a Gregan family at 57 St Joseph Park. The lady there gave me a spare picture of her husband's late grandfather, Dan Gregan. It was uncanny. He was the image of my grandfather (John Joseph - son of Patrick).She told me Dan's brother Jim and Jim's wife Winifred were still alive and living at Newtown just north of Nenagh, so I went out there and met them and their son Patrick, but we could not establish a connection. I also understand that Pat was related to the Gleesons (Gleasons?) who came out from there and he loaned them some money to buy a small farm near Mudgee in NSW.

Another point. Even today some people have difficulty spelling our name here in Australia. When they ask what's your name? and I reply Gregan they spell it "Greegan" or if I write it down they say "Greggan", so now I say "Gregan - Regan with a G in front". For some reason they have no trouble with Regan.

awayJohn,

many of the people that you have mentioned in your post above have passed on at this stage. You wil find some of their headstones on the link to Tipperary Studies. The parish records have not been destroyed for the parish of Youghalarra and Burgess. They began in 1820 for marriages and 1825 for baptisms ( if memory serves me correct). The National Archives websites has some very useful records online and is being added to all the time http://www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie/

Gleeson is spelt Gleeson in Ireland and was changed abroad to Gleason particularly in the USA. 

Gleeson is a quite common name in the area and it maybe a connection worth further researching.

skyrish2us, I cant answer your question re Bridget Delaneys ancestry in any event  for data protection reasons  information on living people cannot be posted here.

Let me toss this into the mix since I see that Newtown is mentioned.  My first cousin three times removed, Timothy Murray (1837-1920), was born in Boolaglass and later emigrated to Victoria and NSW.  Later in his life, he owned the Shamrock Hotel, now the East Sydney Hotel, at Crown & Cathedral Street in Sydney.  My great grandfather, also Timothy Murray (1830-1910), emigrated to Columbia County, Wisconsin.  In my DNA matches, I have Gleesons, Hogans, McHughs, Kennedys, Hylands & lots of Ryans.  My DNA results are on GEDmatch, 23andMe, Ancestry, FTDNA, yseq, yfull, bigY & Heritage.

John Murray, Los Angeles