Tipperary mysteries: Murphy and Spearman

Incorrect information on death certificates is so common that sometimes I think the only info you can be sure of is that someone has died!  If you can obtain a record where the men  themselves provided the parents' names (perhaps a marriage record or even shipping record), that would be more trustworthy.

As far as the O'Brien/O'Brian discrepancy, I would ignore it.  You will probably find this name as Brien, Brian, etc., as well.  I have an ancestor named Stewart and in the various records I have seen Stuart, Stuard, Steward, Stewart, and more.

I hope this is helpfull.

Anastasia's Baptism date is 7th November 1824.  Record attached.
Richard Murphy and Catherine nee Casey 
 

Thank you very much for replying Patricia.

Yes I agree. I've always ranked information from marriage certificates higher than death certificates, though I do recognise on occasion death certificate information could be more accurate, such as when important documents have been found that weren't accessible at the time of marriage. In both cases typos can occur, and sometimes it is a phonetic translation that is recorded. I can well imagine an Australian writing O'Brien as O'Brian.

Cheers, John

Margot, this is amazing!

You may really have found my Anastatia Murphy. 1924 is outside the range I indicated (1828-1835), but I certainly would not discount it. Every Australian document I examined indicated a different birth year. That is why I gave the range. I think all were filled in by her husband, not her. Their marriage took place in Carrick-on-Suir, but some documents mentioned Co. Waterford, not Tipperary, though all documents said she was born in Co, Tipperary.

I only ever saw her mother's maiden name as O'Brian on her death certificate. However, the maiden name of Casey appears several times on William Murphy's Australian certificates. When I said Anastatia's family and William's family were close, I meant really close. After Anastatia's death, her two daughters Mary Catherine and Annie were placed in a Convent orphanage. It seems that both girls were later discharged to Mrs. W. Murphy. For years, later generations of Mary Catherine's family would visit William's family from interstate.

Your discovery is really fascinating! Do you know where her Baptism was recorded? I have never found a townland for her.

Many, many thanks,

John

Hi John,
Carrick on Suir, it's like Clonmel, depends on what side of the river you live on.
As Carrick on Suir is near Piltown, that is in County Kilkenny. So you have search all the areas.

This is the page I found.....in Tipperary town.  This is the only record you would see.   The townland name is listed as it would be in Tipperary town Parish.
02495/06, Tipperary - Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI
This is the main link to the site.  I search in the place you mention, then + and - ten years of the years you state and then search each Parish in other areas. (It was raining yesterday so I stayed in)
Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI

On their marriage in 1853, he was a manager on the Railway living in Carrick on Suir, his Father Robert....a Gentleman...meaning living on own means. Doesn't state his address, also is alive or deceased.
Searching for a death for Robert Bradshaw too many to say which one and none listed as a Gentleman.
Anne...Anastasia no occupation....possibly living at home, this is when it gets hard.
Richard Murphy again too many.

Searching with Murphy and Casey in the same Parish of Tipperary town I have attached four birth records stating Richard and Catherine....some names are in Latin.
This was searching in Ancestry, there is a match to Michael going to the USA.   Patrick a burial in Australia.
When I find a birth I go back to the NLI registers to get the record from there, that's if they have it.

Hi John,
I checked the tithe recrds for Robert Bradshaw........Pallas Grean, Limerick  Bottom entry on the left hand page under Mnt Sion    =   Mount Sion.
004587447/004587447_00153.pdf (nationalarchives.ie)
pallas grean map - Search (bing.com)

There is also a Jane Bradshaw aged 80 in the 1901 Census From Mount Sion, living in Henry Street, Limerick, never married.  See the deathr record, a Rebecca Wilson present at the death.

This Rebecca Wilson and her sister Jane......must be related to Robert Bradshaw......  This is another house in Henry Street.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000999829/
Oh, On these attached records (the uploaded ones, they have the original code, then I add the information so it's easier for you to view.
Note Jane was 80 in the Census and 82 on her death record.

Wow Margot, that is so kind of you to search those records. It is very greatly appreciated!

So, if these Murphy children are all siblings we have a range from 1818 to 1836, which in fact spans the births of Anastatia, Richard and William who all moved to Australia. There had also been talk of a Patrick Murphy in the family but we couldn't place where he fitted in. Michael and Martin are new names for us, but Mary is a popular name in the family. I guess there was no mention of Anastatia's age on her marriage record. That is definitely the correct marriage. Robert Bradshaw did come from Mout Sion in Limerick. I didn't know about Jane or the Wilsons though! Anastatia's family must have moved to Limerick before coming to Australia, possibly through Robert's job with the railways. All very interesting!

Thanks for confirming the birthplaces were Tipperary town Parish. Would it have been possible for Richard Murphy to have been a farmer/landholder there? Maybe on the outskirts of town?

Thanks again, so much.

John

Hard to say where exactly Richard Murphy lived. He is not in the Griffiths Valuation and Civil Deaths were only introduced in 1864. 

In Griffiths Valuation there is Robert Bradshaw in Kilduff, Grean, 1851 This is Pallas Grean
Kilduff Townland, Co. Limerick (townlands.ie)

This is the nearest I can get to where they lived.

Glad I found Mount Sion.   Was there a name to any dwellings in Australia as these give clues?

Margot

Thanks Margot! Frederick's father was indeed Robert. The Robert you found in Griffiths Valuation may well have been him or a close relative. Frederick remarried in Australia after Anastatia's death and lived until 1922. He left quite a paper trail which luckily provided the clues to his family in Limerick.

Unfortunately, the Murphys have proved more of a mystery. Thanks to your help I'll focus on Tipperary town. Perhaps Carrick-on-Suir was the marriage location because Frederick was working there at the time. Maybe Anastatia had moved there too and that's where they met. Thanks too for finding siblings Patrick, Michael and Martin, These are all leads I'll follow up on. Richard and Catharine may yet be found!

Also thank you Margot for your advice about searching records in the NLI. I didn't realise that they provided so much information online. I've already started looking. The films are searchable by Parish, but not by surnames, so I'll no doubt be spending many hours there! It  makes me realise the time you must have put into this. It really is very much appreciated.

Best wishes, John

Lets hope you find more on the families.
Margot

John - I am directly descended from Richard Murphy, brother of Anastatia, I have a wealth of information on the family members who came to/lived in Australia.  We should speak - Peter