Loney Family Ballylooby

Hi Peter, my name is David Slattery, my ancestors are mostly from Ballylooby and I try to answer any queries relating to the parish.  The first thing I noticed in the screenshot of the entry is the spelling of the groom's name, which in my view is not Loney; it looks more like 'Lidincy'.  I tried a search in Rootsireland.ie armed with the information you supplied but couldn't find a record of the marriage on August 1, 1839 of Catherine Landrigan (Lonergan) to anyone with a name similar to Loney such as Looney, Lidney, Lidincey etc.    I played around with the letters to see if any record would result.

Unfortunately, Church Records of births and marriages for Ballylooby parish do not pre-date 1828 so Samuel's baptism is not on record; Civil Birth Records did not exist at that time in Ireland.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful,

David.

Hi David, thank you for your response and your efforts. I keep getting back to this point and, despite seemingly promising leads, end up frustrated. I agree with you that the writing on the church register could be read as a number of variants (also with Catherine). However, all of the material I have unearthed in Australia indicates that both Samuel and Catherine were extremely devout, for example walking for two weeks or more from their rural home to the church in Ballarat to have a child baptised and Samuel teaching himself to read using the Bible. On this basis I think it unlikely that they would have provided different names and effectively "lied" in church so I don't know how to interpret the writing on the parish register. All of their 11 children were baptised as Loney. They gave these details on official documents here as their marriage details and they sailed from London only a few weeks later as assisted migrants under the name Loney. Samuel's death certificate list his parents as John and Jane Loney (The only John and Jane Loney I can find that seem of the right age were in Armagh). On all documents here Samuel is recorded as Loney although Catherine is variously recorded as Landrigan, Lundrigan, Lonergan and other variants. On the shipping manifest Samuel is recorded as 23, Tailor, RC, Whitechurch, Tipperary and Catherine recorded as 24, Housemaid, RC, Whitechurch Tipperary. It is also noted that Nancy Lonergan 24 who travelled on the same ship may be a sister to Catherine. So, all in all, I am left with a continuing mystery about my ancestral heritage.

Again, thank you for your efforts, it is appreciated. 

Cheers,  

Peter

Peter, I don't doubt for a second that their names are correct; I am just pointing out that in the manuscript entry, the name Loney is indecipherable and that due to a lack of records prior to 1828 it is not possible to find a record of the baptism of Samuel or any of his siblings - if there were siblings.  Lonergan is a very common name in South Tipperary.  In fact it is considered  to be the most common surname in South Tipperary even though Ryan is the most common name in the county as a whole .  My wife's maiden name was Marie Lonergan.

This Lonergan name was very often pronounced Londergan and maybe Landergan and the name was probably spelled phonetically in the Register if Catherine pronounced it as Landrigan.  The screen shot of the original marriage record is taken from the Parish Record book for the period and unfortunately, the handwriting of the officiating priest often leaves a lot to be desired. Personally, I have encountered very many errors in the original register books. I sometimes wonder if the register was filed on the day of the marriage or maybe sometime afterwards when the priest could very easily make a mistake with the names due carelessness or forgetfulness. I really wish that I could be more helpful but in Ireland we are hindered by a lack of records, particularly during the period of Penal Laws.  The only readily available records of Census are those of 1901 and 1911 because earlier Census records were destroyed by fire in the shelling of the Four Courts in Dublin June 30th 1922 in the Irish Civil War. 

Best Regards,

David.

Hi David,   please do not think that I am at all unappreciative of the efforts that you have made, I understand well, the difficulties that you refer to.  I was expressing my frustration, I hope that it did not come across as a lack of gratitude. Misspellings are very common particularly in the country that they emigrated to as a combination of accents and local officials with poor or little education wrote down what they thought they heard and that compounds the difficulties. added to this is that , for whatever reasons, there has been virtually no oral history passed down through the family. Like you, I have stared at the parish record and tried to decipher it. I can with a little imagination and assuming bad handwriting, get it to Loaney but that is just conjecture or perhaps wishful thinking. Given what you say about Lonergan, I can justifiably claim to have Tipperary ancestry at least! Probably just as well that I wasn't seeking assistance about my wife's family - Doherty's from Care!!

Please be assured that I am truly appreciative of the effort you have gone to. 

My regards to you, 

Peter

Hi Peter, 

Did you do an enquiry into Doherty's in Cahir (Pronounced Care) ??

There are Dohertys in Cahir and one is Tom Doherty, a professional phtographer.  Another is Breda Doherty and they both have web pages.  Would they be related to your wife's ancestors I wonder.

David.

Hi David,

that was my typing error - it should have been Doherty's from Clare (County)

Peter

Dear Tom,

Greetings from Geelong.

Thank you so much for the enormous effort that you have put in to try to assaist with my tracing of my ancestors. I had thought that I had come to a dead end, but the information that you have provided opens up some new lines of investigation for me. In particular your noting of the barracks housing soldiers from the north. I have a  somewhat vague recollection from my childhood of my father mentioning a family connection to Belfast, but there was no detail and I have always been uncertain as to whether or not this was more family myth and conjecture than fact. Tracing Samuel back to Tipperary seemed to suggest that it was not correct, but perhaps it had come from my grandfather (Samuel's son) and my father recalled it. So I will certainly try researching through that avenue. The information you have provided on Catherine's possibly family are also very useful. Nancy is listed in "Victoria Before 1848" as arriving on the Westminster and as 'possibly' being Catherine's sister. Confusion could also come from Catherine being named on various documents as Landrigan/Lundrigen as well as Lonergan. Not uncommon on early documents here with the combination of accents and poor education.

I will start following the clues you have provided. Thanks again for your work.

With my best wishes,

Peter     

Dear Tom,

Thank you so much for trhe further, time-consuming work that you have undertaken to try to unearth some more information about my ancestors. I had thought that I was at a complete dead end, but this opens up new avenues for me to pursue. I am very appreciative of all that you have done.

Fond Regards,

Peter Loney (perhaps Leamy!)

I have been searching for my Loney connection to Tipperary for some time, albeit fruitlessly. The connection to my great grand-parents Samuel and Catherine who emigrated to Australia in 1839 seems to peter out. However, I have recently come across a Samuel in the Parish Tithes for Modreeny 1814 - 1855 as a tenant on the Island Wood property of Lord Dunalley. Although this is not my Samuel, I am wondering if there is a family connection given the name. I have not been able to make it but perhaps there is someone else who can. I have attached a copy of the relevant page from the Tithes register

Any information would be appreciated.

 

Peter Loney

Hello Peter. I subscribe to this message board because my grandfather is from this parish (surname Richardson). I’ve collected a lot of records. 

Your message jogged my memory so I jotted down my thoughts. I recall seeing the surname Loney for a couple Hugh Loney and Margaret Richardson (unknown if I am related to her). Rootsireland indexed a marriage record for them July 22, 1836. The actual date was July 22, 1838. I found an image on findmypast. The witnesses were Gerald Fitzgerald and Mary Sullivan. Their son James Looney was baptized July 21, 1839 at Cahir (godparents John Meehan and M. Doyle). Hugh, the father, is listed as Henry in that record, which is almost certainly an error, because Henry is not usually interchangeable with Hugh (Hugo, Eugene and Owen sometimes are). Their son John was baptized March 2, 1843 at Cahir (godparents Michael Daley and Ellen Dalton). Their son Robert Looney was baptized Oct 39, 1844 at Cahir (godparents James Dawson and M. White). So, there was at least one Loney/Looney family in the area. Do any of these names (Hugh, James, John, Robert) occur in Samuel’s family?

Have you done an autosomal DNA test? I would be curious if you have any DNA cousin matches from this area in Tipp. David Slattery, who replied earlier to your post, and I are distant cousins. We discovered that through DNA testing. Have you done a Y-DNA test? That traces your direct paternal line and it may shed light on the surname Loney, and if it is perhaps a variation of another name.

Best regards,

Liz Rosky

New Jersey, USA

Greetings Liz, 

Thank you for your reply which is both informative and a little exciting. The names that you mention (Hugh, James, John, Robert) are actually all names of my great grandfather Samuel's sons with my grandfather being Hugh. The names repeat in his sons. My father being James and one of his brothers named Hugh John. We have traced Samuel back to Tipperary including marriage records from1839 in St Mary's Church, Ballylooby, Cloqheen. Samuel and Catherine then migrated to Australia later that year. I think that it is possible that the Hugh you mention could be a brother as he would have been of similar age. I am aware that Loneys from the same area migrated to the USA and Canada a little later (there is still a Loney's Lake outside of Toronto) and some of these are quite well chronicled. I have not, however been able to find the link to my Samuel. Family first names are often a way of finding a link, hence my cautious excitement. As well, Samuel lists his fathers name as John (mother Jane) on Australian records. 

I have had a DNA test which has confirmed the Irish link but not as specifically as the tests you suggest. It has also uncovered some relatives in Australia of whom I was not aware.

Again, thanks very much for your response which may put in place another step in linking to my past.

Regards, 

Peter

I am still seeking any historical information about my ancestors Samuel and Catherine Loney who emigrated from Ireland to Melbourne, Australia in 1839. Samuel was married to Catherine Landrigan (although could have been Lonergan) who I am also keen to trace. I have given more detail about them in earlier posts. 

I have come across a Samuel Loney in the Modreeny Tithes for 1823 and William and Thomas Loney in the Tipperary Tithes for 1812. I am hoping that these may lead to some connection. 

I have also come across a baptism entry for a Catherine Lonergan in Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915, Cashel and Emly, January 11, 1813. Father Gulielmo (William) Lonergan, Mother Alicia (Alice) Grant. Although I had believed that Catherine was born around 1816, I am wondering if this could be my ancestor. I believe that Catherine had a sister Nancy who travelled to Australia at the same time as Catherine and Samuel. 

ploney

Hi Peter.

Were Catherine’s parents mentioned in her death record?

I realize the following information will not necessarily help you make connections but I wanted to share it with you anyway, or perhaps it will help someone else.

There was a Daniel O’Luiney in Whitechurch/Tubrid in the Tipperary Hearth Money Records for 1666-7: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044020301420&view=1up&seq=…

Loney seems to be a variant of O’Luiney which seems to be a variant of the Irish Ó Luinigh: https://www.libraryireland.com/names/ol/o-luinigh.php

More here: http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mhuintirluinigh/family/index.html

In 1827, a Widow Loney was recorded in the Tithe Applotment Book for the town of Aughnagomaun, parish of Ballysheehan, Co. Tipp which is, according to Google, about 7.5 miles from Cahir and about 10.5 miles from Whitechurch/Ballylooby: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587407/00…

She was on the 1831 Tithe Defaulters list. From findmypast:

Mary Loney, widow
Residence Aughnacomane
Parish Ballysheehan
Barony Middlethird
County Tipperary
Parishes surveyed Erry & Ballysheehan