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Patrick or John Hoey in Drumcliff

SligoDrumcliff (Sligo)

My second great-grandfather, Patrick Hoey was born in Sligo in approximately 1833. I plan to visit Sligo for the first time this June. As part of my genealogical research, I would like to find more information about Patrick, his father John, or any of their family. Patrick's mother was Mary Fitzgerald. Patrick had two brothers, Charles and John. It appears that the name may have been HOY or HOYE in Ireland but became HOEY in America

Here is the other information that I have:
-There were two Cooldrummans, one Upper and one Lower, townlands in Co. Sligo, both located in the barony of Carbury, Poor Law Union of Sligo, and Civil Parish of Drumcliff.
-There are three entries for Hoey in Griffiths, all in Cooldrumman Lower townland, two for John and one for Charles, published about 1852.
-There were households headed by Charles and John Hoey at Cooldrummon Lower, Drumcliff, Co Sligo in 1858.
-The Catholic baptismal records for Drumcliff start in 1841 and in 1865 for marriages.
-This information pertains to the civil parish of Drumcliff, Co Sligo and/or Townland Acres County Parish Barony PLU Province, Cooldrumman Lower 240 and Cooldrumman Upper 211 Sligo Drumcliff Carbury Sligo Connaught.

I found one possible match for Patrick in the passengers on the emigrant ship "Guy Mannering." It sailed from Liverpool on May 22, 1849 and arrived in New York on June 28. The Guy Mannering was launched in March 1849 at New York and this was her first east-west voyage. The listing below is from NARA Film Number M237 80-828, National Archives, Washington DC. It has been rearranged in alphabetical order, but with family groupings retained. Most of the passengers were Irish.
Abbreviations: Lab/Laborer/Labourer
HOEY, Patrick 28 Lab USA

Patrick was listed in Willimantic, CT on November 23, 1861, when he enlisted in the army. The record shows that he was born in Cooldrumman in Sligo. He is shown as 26 years old, so perhaps he was born as late as 1835. He was 5 feet 8 inches tall, with a "sandy" complexion, blue eyes, and brown hair. He served in the U.S. civil war until he was discharged in 1865.

Patrick married Catherine Wood. She was born about 1840 in Ireland. Patrick and Catherine Hoey apparently had at least nine children, all of whom were born in Willimantic, Connecticut.

I would appreciate learning what more information, if any, might be
available about any of these Hoey/Hoy family members and how I could obtain it. Thank you for your attention.

Sincerely,
Robert G. Judge

RobertGJudge

9 replies

Robert,

There was still a Hoey household in Cooldrumman Lower in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Sligo/Lissadill_East/Cooldrumman_Lower/1680313/

 Same family in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Sligo/Lissadill_East/Cooldrumman_Lower/753555/

Ages were often out in the census. (Many people generally guessed them, though by 1911 there was a tendency to increase them in the hope of qualifying for an old age pension (which had been introduced in 1909).

My interpretation of the information in Griffiths is that John Hoey had a small farm consisting of a house and a total of 14 acres (plots 10 to 12). The same John Hoey had the garden on plot 1b. (Where there were 2 different people of the same name, Griffiths normally differentiated them by a nickname or snr & jr etc). The absence of that in this case tells you it?s the same John who has both pieces of land.

Charles has a similar sized farm of just over 14 acres (plots 6 & 7).

Both these farms should be easy enough to locate today should you wish to do so. There is however something slightly odd about the Griffiths Maps. Charles farm is shown clearly enough but some of the other properties in the townland aren?t shown for some reason. Though it ought to, the map doesn?t appear to match the list of properties in the information section. Sometimes you get a detached bit of a townland nearby. Perhaps that?s the explanation here, though I can?t see it.

There is a series of books that takes the 1858 primary valuation forward. These are the revaluation books. They are kept in the Valuation office in Dublin. They are not on-line (except for the counties of Northern Ireland which are). The revaluation records run through to about 1929 so you can see what became of these two properties up to that date. Changes of tenant are shown and it is sometimes possible to see when someone died because it will say ?reps of? as the tenant, till the estate was sorted. A visit to the VAluation Office is normally required to access them.

I had a look for the tithe applotment records for Cooldrumman which would show who had land in the townland in the 1820s/30s but unfortunately those for that townland are missing.

I looked in the National Archives wills site but don?t see any probate files for Hoey of Cooldrumman Lower.

Might be wroth checking local graveyards in the area in case gravestones provide a bit more information (though a lot of the population didn?t have gravestones).

 

 

Elwyn

Ahoghill AntrimIrelandXO Volunteer

Dear Elwyn:
Thank you very much for your quick and helpful response!

Yes, I would like to try to locate those farms.  Can you suggest how I might do so?

I am willing to pay for such research.  Can you suggest a source for research?  I welcome any other suggestions too, of course.

Again, thank you.

Sincerely,

Robert Judge

Holyoke MA USA

 

RobertGJudge

Robert,

There is a list of researchers on the National Archives site:

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy1/genealogy-researchers-nationwide/

I see one in Sligo (Lorna Peel). You might want to contact her. Some of the records I have suggested are kept in Dublin, eg the Valuation Office records. You would need to consider whether to employ someone else in the Dublin area for those. (Sligo to Dublin is about 3 hours, either driving or on the train, so a Sligo based researcher might not be that keen to do it).

You could ask the Sligo researcher to find and photograph the farms. (They are probably still there, though more modern buildings may have replaced the 1850s ones.). Likewise a search of graveyards. (Some of the Sligo records may even be on-line. A local researcher is more likely to know that).

Few RC churches kept burial records, and many people did not have a gravestone, but obviously some did and more prosperous farmers often did. So it?s worth checking.

I did look in the local phone book to see if there were any Hoey households listed today for Cooldrumman but none is shown. (Many people are ex-directory these days, so that?s not conclusive). Your researcher can knock on a few doors and enquire if anyone knows of Hoey families in the area.

 

Elwyn

 

Ahoghill AntrimIrelandXO Volunteer

Dear Elwyn:

Thank again so very much for such helpful information!  I will contact Ms Peel!

- Robert Judge

Holyoke MA USA

RobertGJudge

Hi Roger,

I currently live in Cooladrummon Lower, Cashelgarran, Drumcliffe, County Sligo. Unfortunately I only moved into the area 15 years ago, so our families are not familiar with each other!

I will however ask the families in the area if they have any recollection of the name Hoey which sounds very Irish. My neighbors (name ?West?) are the largest landowners in Cashelgarran and they may be able to fill me in. Their grandmother is in her 90?s now and is still alive so she might know something about your people.

From experience reference is continued to abandoned cottages under the name of the last resident so I might get lucky.

I just spotted your post by mistake, I actually typed the townland name into a search engine to see if I could get better broadband and your listing came up first!!

You can email me directly at the work address listed below.

Best wishes,

John Casserly

Email casserly.john@itsligo.ie

IrelandXO member

Hi Roger,

I currently live in Cooladrummon Lower, Cashelgarran, Drumcliffe, County Sligo. Unfortunately I only moved into the area 15 years ago, so our families are not familiar with each other!

I will however ask the families in the area if they have any recollection of the name Hoey which sounds very Irish. My neighbors (name ?West?) are the largest landowners in Cashelgarran and they may be able to fill me in. Their grandmother is in her 90?s now and is still alive so she might know something about your people.

From experience reference is continued to abandoned cottages under the name of the last resident so I might get lucky.

I just spotted your post by mistake, I actually typed the townland name into a search engine to see if I could get better broadband and your listing came up first!!

You can email me directly at the work address listed below.

Best wishes,

John Casserly

Email casserly.john@itsligo.ie

IrelandXO member

Hi Roger,

I currently live in Cooladrummon Lower, Cashelgarran, Drumcliffe, County Sligo. Unfortunately I only moved into the area 15 years ago, so our families are not familiar with each other!

I will however ask the families in the area if they have any recollection of the name Hoey which sounds very Irish. My neighbors (name ?West?) are the largest landowners in Cashelgarran and they may be able to fill me in. Their grandmother is in her 90?s now and is still alive so she might know something about your people.

From experience reference is continued to abandoned cottages under the name of the last resident so I might get lucky.

I just spotted your post by mistake, I actually typed the townland name into a search engine to see if I could get better broadband and your listing came up first!!

You can email me directly at the work address listed below.

Best wishes,

John Casserly

Email casserly.john@itsligo.ie

IrelandXO member

Hi Roger,

I currently live in Cooladrummon Lower, Cashelgarran, Drumcliffe, County Sligo. Unfortunately I only moved into the area 15 years ago, so our families are not familiar with each other!

I will however ask the families in the area if they have any recollection of the name Hoey which sounds very Irish. My neighbors (name ?West?) are the largest landowners in Cashelgarran and they may be able to fill me in. Their grandmother is in her 90?s now and is still alive so she might know something about your people.

From experience reference is continued to abandoned cottages under the name of the last resident so I might get lucky.

I just spotted your post by mistake, I actually typed the townland name into a search engine to see if I could get better broadband and your listing came up first!!

You can email me directly at the work address listed below.

Best wishes,

John Casserly

Email casserly.john@itsligo.ie

IrelandXO member

Hi Robert,

I've had a look at the Griffiths Valuation maps, Charles and John's holdings are currently owned by the Des West's family (RIP 2013). His sons ( Alan and Derrick) currently farm the holding which includes most of Cooldrummon Lower. 

I will talk to them over the coming days and try to get some information on the Hoey holding. There are many abondoned cottages on their land, so I hope we might get someting for you.

Are you sure that the Hoey's were Catholic, if so they are probably the only ones listed in the townland. All of the other names are Church of Ireland familes, most of whom have decendants living in the area.

Regards,

John Casserly 

 

IrelandXO member

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