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The Carrolls of Lissian / Lissergool

RoscommonCastlemore (Roscommon)Tibohine (Roscommon)

 

I have traced my 3rd great grandfather, Michael Carroll (b.12 May 1836) back to Lissergool, Tibohine, Roscommon. In the 1901 census he was living in house 7 with his wife Mary McDermott (b.abt 1841) and daughter Bridgid (b.15 Sep 1876 Lissian, Rosscommon). Through DNA matches I am definately related to Bridgid who later married a John Hessian. DNA also shows a connection to another sibling John (b.24 aug 1874, Lissian, Roscommon). There are two further siblings William (b.3 Oct 1870, Lissian, Roscommon) and Winfirid (b.15 nov 1872, Lissian, Roscommon) This much I am quite happy about (I think). The problem is then going back another generation.

  It would appear that the Carroll house was in fact in Lissergool according to Griffiths valuation 1858 (plot 1a on attached map) and the occupier was a Mary Carroll (the neighbours being Bridget McDermott and a William Lowry).  The 2 plots of land adjacent(plots 19 and 20 on map) were in Lissian according to Griffiths and the tenants were Charles Carroll, Bridget McDermott and William Lowry (one of the plots was a bog).  I am jumping to the conclusion that Charles and Mary were married and were my 4th great grandparents but cannot find anything to confirm this.

  Through a contact I made on ancestry, who had done some of this family tree, I was able to find this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQP2CtB8ggs which is a trip round Lissergool with Cormac McDonagh. At the very beginning he talks about the Carroll house and shows it. This appears to confirm this is the same location as in the Griffiths valuation as there is no road on the map and as Cormac states it was only put in in 1910.

 

Chris Carroll

8 replies

Chris:

I looked on the subscription site Roots Ireland and located a February 17 1860 marriage record for Michael Carroll and Maria McDermott. The marriage was at the church in Ballaghaderreen. This church is now the Cathedral of the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary and St. Nathys where the Bishop of Achonry resides.

I located five children. In addition to the four you listed, I found a Michael Carroll born July 31 1868. At that time the family was living in Lissergool.

See sixth record   https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Somewhere between 1868 and 1870 when William was born, the family moved to Lissian which is a little over two miles from Lissergool.  Lissian is in Castlemore civil parish not Tibohine parish where Lissergool is located.

What I find surprising is the fact there were no children between 1861-1867 unless the 1860 marriage is for a different couple.  Ballaghaderreen baptismal records are available back to 1851.

The 1911 census indicates that Mary Carroll had nine children with five living in 1911.  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Loughglinn/L…

I would agree that Mary Carroll is likely the mother of Michael Carroll but I'm not sure that Charles was her husband.

Michael Carroll died in 1912    see last record    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Mary Carroll died in 1913   see last record    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Let me know what questions you have.

Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks for the information
I did in fact know about Michael he is the one I am descended from! In my excitement forgot to put him down! I have been trying to find out about this 'move' and think now that I may have sorted it. I don't think they moved 2 miles, Possibly only a few yards! I have attached some more files from Griffiths valuation and a map. Mary and the house she was tenant of were in Lissergool right on the border with Lissian. It is listed as House and land in area 1a marked in green on the map (Carroll Lissian-Lissergool house). On land adjacent, marked 19, the tenant is Charles Carroll but despite the a on the map, the valuation is for land only, no house. I am wondering if it is possible that the tenants with houses in Lissergool were evicted and the Carrolls were allowed to move/build the house that now stands and is marked with blue circle just over the border in Lissian on the land Charles was tenant of?

I would love to be able to ascertain the relation between Mary and Charles as it does seem odd that she would be tenant of the land and hose in Lissergool and he would be tenant of the land adjacent in Lissine, although of the 4 houses before the office 3 of them are female tenants. Is this the norm?

Chris Carroll

Chris:

I was iusing Google Maps and likely they compute distance from the center of the townland to the center of the other townland which is where the two miles came from.

I think the revisions to the Griffiths Survey would be helpful to you so you can see how property changed hands after 1855. Unfortunately, the revision books are only available at the Valuation office in Dublin. They are in the process of digitizing the books and I assume at some point the books will be available online. (As an aside the revision books for the six Northern Ireland counties are available online at the PRONI site).

https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/revision-books.html

In my experience, men died earlier than women and usually the widow took over the lease.

I looked at Ballaghaderreen marriages which start in 1830 and I don't see a Charles Carroll but certainly he could have married before 1830.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Chris:

I searched on Roots Ireland in the Ballaghaderreen records and found a baptismal record  January 4 1861 (born December 15 1860) for a Brigid Carroll father Charles Carroll and mother Winifred Gallagher and the location was Lesian (possibly Lissian). The same couple had a son Charles in 1866.

I also located an 1885 death record for a married Charles Carroll who lived in Lissergool and the informant was a Catherine Carroll but no relationship info is provided.

see ninth record    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Roger,

          Thanks yet again. Very useful info. I am now assuming that Charles snr (b1830) was in fact the older brother of Patrick (1833) and my 2nd Great grandfather Michael (1836). It is therfore very probable that the Mary Carol who rented the house in Lisserggol was their mother Mary Carroll (Mc Entire) and her husband William had died sometime before 1857, which is the first time I can find Charles as Tenant of the land in 'Lissergool and part of Lissian' in; Ireland, Encumbered Estates, 1850-1885. 

 It is still very confusing with them being on the border! Tibohine, Castlemore, Elphin parish, Castlemore and Kilcolman parish, Loughglinn, all appear in the various sources I have found but they dont appear to have moved very far at all!

Once again thanks for your invaluable help.

Chris Carroll

 

Chris Carroll

Hi,

I don't know where my Carroll family originated in Ireland but my great grandfather, John Carroll, arrived in Massachusetts, USA around 1870 and worked in a foundry in Lowell, MA.

My brother and my daughter have DNA loaded on Gedmatch.com..  (kit # A834397 JOE CARROLL, A198766 CMC Christie Cunningham)  

If you load your Carroll DNA to this website and we have a match, please let me know!

Thanks,

Joanne Carroll

msjcarroll

My name is Frances, I am the daughter of Frances Hession, she was Bridget and John Hessions daughter.

 

francesqwilliams

Sorry Francis but its been a while since I have been on here and didn't get a message to tell me there was a new post! hello cousin!

Chris Carroll

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