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Catharine/Catherine Kelly/Kelley born in ?Roscommon c 1858

Roscommon

Hello

I am trying to find my Irish ancestry. My great-grandmotherCatherine moved to England between 1865 and 1868 and was aged 13 in the 1871 census living in Darlington with her parents Winifred (nee Hore) and Martin Kelley/Kelly. Catherine's place of birth is stated as Roscommon Ireland in this 1871 census. Mother Winifred A Kelley (nee Hore) is aged 40, therefore born circa 1831, place of birth is just stated as Ireland. Her father Martin Kelley is aged 44, therefore born circa 1827, place of birth again just stated as Ireland.

I would love to find a birth record for Catherine and hopefully more information about her parents. Unfortunately Roscommon is all I have to go on.

I do know that Winifred had a sister also called Catherine as she is living with the family in the 1871 census, she is stated to be "wife's sister". She is aged 25 in 1871, therefore born circa 1846, place of birth just given as Ireland.

There is also a possible link to a Daniel Hore who lives close by them in 1871 in Darlington and lives on the same street as them in 1891 in Stockton. Daniel was born circa 1838 in Strokestown, Ireland. So he may be Winifred's brother and Catherine's uncle. He is married to Mary Fee born circa 1843, and her mother Bridget Fee is living with them, born c 1810. Again places of birth are just stated to be Ireland. It would be great if a definite family link could be made between Daniel and Winifred.

Thank you so much if anyone can help or point me in the right direction.

Suzanne Bradshaw

6 replies

Brads:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I don't think you will find a baptismal record for Catherine because records for her parish of Kilglass do not start until 1865. For the same reason, I was unable to locate a marriage record.

I did locate the civil birth records (they start in 1864) for two of her younger siblings Michael and Mary which are below. You will have to sign-in to see the records which are the last records on the pages.

The family lived in Corgowan townland in Kilglass civil parish.

The 1855 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Kilglass also shows Martin in Corgowan. There are a number of Hoare records also listed.

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/roscommon/kilglass.htm

Let me know if you have any questions.

Roger McDonnell

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Hello Roger

I can't thank you enough for your help with this. I am feeling quite emotional at the moment as I never thought I would get any information about my Irish ancestors time in Ireland. I do have some questions having had chance to look at the information you have sent me - and I am amazed at the detail there is available, especially the Griffiths valuation which I have never heard of.

1. On looking at the Griffith's Land Valuation site, I can see the area marked on the map view as Corgowan, but I can't tell how to find the plot of land that Martin Kelly had. On the original page view, Martin looks as if he had plot no 12 but I can't see any plot numbers in the Corgowan area that go over 8? 

2. Mary Kelly born in 1867 is not with the family in the English 1871 census (the older brother Michael is). I cannot find a record of a death for her in England between 1867 and 1868 (brother Peter was born in Darlington in 1868 so the family had left for England before then). I wonder if there is a death record for her in Ireland?

3.  Finally, you say that records do not begin until the 1860s. Does this mean that this is as far back as anyone can go with tracing Irish ancestors (who are not landed gentry or such)? 

Many thanks once again

Sue Bradshaw

Suzanne Bradshaw

in answer to the questions you mentioned ...

1.  The initial Griffith's map you see on the AskAboutIreland website date from much later than most of the Valuations - some areas the maps are from abt 1880. I believe these were chosen as they are clearer, in colour, and much easier to figure out than the original old black and white maps, the older maps can also include notations and crossing out.  To view additional older maps for this area, select the 'map version' option towards the top right of the map and select map 3, you will see where at some point the reference 12 was crossed out and updated to read 5B.

2. Death certs do not include much family information so can be difficult to confirm if you have the correct person. In the case of the death of a child one of the parents may be the informant which can help, as can the place of death. Mary Kelly is a very common name, so it could require quite a few certs in order to check this, so I would suggest waiting for the free GRO/IrishGenealogy website to add the earlier civil death records to their site. (The death cert images on the system currently cover back to 1891)

3. Civil birth records for the island of Ireland started in 1864, so before that you need to search Church baptism records. The dates available depends on the parish, in some Catholic parishes, particularly in cities and some larger towns records may go back to the the mid 1700s, but the average starting date for Catholic regsiters is about 1830. Kilglass is particularly late, even though the parish existed back to at least the 1830s and probably earlier, but it's possible they were not keeping good written records before 1865, or their records were improperly stored and deteriorated, or were accidentally destroyed in a fire or flood etc

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Sue:

I see my colleague Shane has provided some great info on your questions. Let us know if you have additional questions.

I know what you mean about getting emotional when you discover details on your ancestors in Ireland. 

You may also want to consider autosomal DNA testing. You may match individuals who have more info on your Kelly and Hoares or other lines on your maternal or paternal sides. Using DNA matches I've been able to break down brick walls for my ancestors and my wife's ancestors.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Dear Sue:

 

I'm so delighted to see that you have had great assistance from Ireland XO!  Please be sure to join the parish of Kilglass and please consider sharing something about your family on our XO Chronicles pages.

All the best to you,

 

Jane Halloran Ryan

Volunteer Coordinator

jhalloranryan@…

Thanks for all your replies. They are very helpful for me to understand the system of records that were kept in Ireland.  I will also  think about the autosomal DNA testing - I did not realise that it may provide such accurate results. I will definitely share some of my ancestors family on the Chronicle pages when I can get my head around exactly what information I have. I may have further questions yet!

I am currently following an online course in genealogy on the Future Learn website and it is proving to be very helpful. It was one of my fellow students who pointed me in the direction of the Ireland XO website. 

Once again, thanks everyone.

Suzanne Bradshaw

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