Abbotts in shinrone

Morning and welcome!

It might be a good idea to have a look at the Early Birth and Marriage Index to see if there are any Abbott additions there. There is a marriage record on rootsireland that lists the marriage date of Joseph and Margaret on 3 Jan 1869 and lists his father as Joseph. You could have a look at that site to see how many are listed there.

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

Have all that Clare, Thanks anyway.

Hi

I have found Abbott relatives back as far as timothy Abbott who married a Margaret o Sullivan or Sullivan
Can't find a marriage but would think it about 1810 to 1830 as they had 4 children at least
Cannot find anything before 1790 though

Regards Phil

I now have everything I need to know about the 'Abbotts' back to my ancestor John who was born in Halstock in Dorset, England in 1592. I am also continuing to gather more info, it never ends once you get another lead. My ancestors went to America, Canada, Australia and England after arriving here and became very established in the the countries they arrived in and thrived.

I have unsolved DNA links to several members of the Abbott family of Tipperary, all with extremely high liklihood of being 3rd-4th cousins according to ancestry.com. My family was Church of Ireland, (my Abbott connections are not). My hunch is that the link Might be via my Spencer of Tipperary ancestors but I have not been able to figure it out. My 3rd great grandfathers in thise Tipperary/Offaly part of my tree were John Spencer and Sandy Chesnut (no info on either). Are you on GEDmatch? 

Hi

I will give you my email

It is moonphil2649@yahoo.co.uk

Regards Phil

Please stay in touch

Hi Ela,

My Gedmatch kit no. is A472986.
Only got the email from 'Ireland XO ' now, they need to pull their socks up.

Hi

Any of your Abbotts related to timothy or Mary Abbott ( she married a Daniel Sullivan)

Regards Phil

Hi

Any of your Abbotts related to timothy or Mary Abbott ( she married a Daniel Sullivan)

Regards Phil

Many thanks for your reply, and sorry we don't have a match, (my Tipperary side GEDmatch kit is T1616483, autosomal and mitochondrial)

Phil where were your Abbott's from. I think I could now do a thesis on where all the Abbott's in Ireland lived. If you give me a county I might at least be able to tell you whether were possibily related.

Hi

Thanks for your reply

Mary Abbott and timothy Abbott

Appear to have been born/ baptised in cork

But if you need more information

I will look up my records

Regards Phil

My Abbott's were from Cork...John arrived in 1612 from Devon(England) not Dorset , during the 'Beecher Plantation of Munster he was 20 years of age at the time. He married a Jane Seymour , obviously of English descent.

See what you can find Phil...much appreciated.

For jfk123

I think we have been researching the same lineage.  My gt, grandfather, another John Abbott, left Co Tipperary around 1853, aged 18.  He first went to Canada and then moved onward to Wisconsin.  I have been trying to identify his Irish  parentage for seven years, but have not yet been successful.  The family my great grandfather spawned in America was thoroughly Irish catholic so I had always assumed the he was born catholic in Ireland.  But now I wonder if he might have converted when, in America, he met and married Margaret Mcguire, an Irish lass from Kilkenny. 

I am sure you are correct that the Abbotts of North Tipperary were all linked to the Abbotts of Shinrone and Kings County. The birth/marriage and death records that are available on-line, which begin around 1800, are incomplete.  They do not include the Cof I records for Shinrone and Birr.  This spring the Tullemore heritage center provided me the Abbott entries for these records from the late 1700s to the late 1800s.  These records show a large concentration of protestant Abbotts in Shinrone...about 50 births, 20 marriages and 15 burials.  I found very few catholic Abbotts in this vacinity prior to 1850.  There was also a significant cluster of Abbotts around Birr.  In the same time frame, just across the county line, there were numerous Abbotts scattered around Cloughjordan, both protestant and catholic. 

Property records show that by 1700 an Abbott family was well established just over the county line in Ballingarry, in Ballylusky, near Ardcroney.   This Abbott family had an estate of 600 acres held on a very long lease from Sir Richard Butler (a younger catholic brother of the Duke of Ormond..another story.)  The first two or three generations of these Abbotts had large families, wilth numerous sons. The heirs did well and a number of the Abbotts intermarried among the protestant ascendency of Upper and Lower Ormond.  One line established a very successful wool drappery business in Birr and acquired considerable property in that city by the end of the 18th century.  Another line branched out to Barnagrotty, in Kings, near Moneygall.  Another married into an inheritance of Ballyhasty, adjoining Cloughjordan.  In the first half of the 1800s, several of the decendents of this line of protestant Abbotts were Esqs and minor officials.  Some were tradesman in Cloughjordan or Nenagh and several were "strong farmers."   Several of the early 19th century Shinrone Abbotts seem to fit this mold.  A couple were tax collectors or minor functionaries, some were tradesman and some were farmers.  Shinrone was a protestant stronghold in the first half of the the 19th century and my surmise is that the Abbotts that congregated there were the second or third sons of the propertied Abbotts of nearby Ballingarry and Barnagrotty.  

I have a copy of "Abbott Family Genealogy" prepared by the Kingsmill/Abbott family which sketches some of this Tipperary/Kings record of the Abbotts.  (It was available on-line a couple of years ago but I could not find it when I looked recently.)   I was able to confirm most of the information back to the holding of Ballylusky by William Abbott in 1700.  That genealogy states that earlier, Ballylusky had been held by a Richard Abbott, who was the son of the John Abbott who had arrived in Cork, in 1612.  I think this linkage is incorrect.  There might have been a Richard Abbott in Ballylusky in the later part of the 17th century but, if so, it is unlikely he was the son of John Abbott of Cork.  That John Abbott did have a (third) son named Richard Abbott but he died in Kinsale in 1675.

jfk123: Do you have any documentation, other than the "Abbott Family Genealogy,"  establishing the link between the Abbotts of Cork and the Abbotts of Tipperary?  That Genealogy also states that "God be with Us" John Abbott fought with Cromwell.  I have not been able to confirm this.   

An alternative line I have pursued is that the Abbotts of Tipperary are decendents (or decendents of kinsman) of Col Daniel Abbott, the Cromwellian soldier who received land grants of over 4,000 acres around Nenagh.  The circumstantial case for the linkage to Col Abbott is very strong but I have not yet been able to document the connection.

HAPPENSTANCE

 

 

Hi happenstance,

First of all great to hear from you and I hope to be able to help you. Most of the info you have you have just written either I have it or I've come across it, excellent research by the way. The Richard Abbott son of John Abbott who came to Cork in 1612 is my 8th great-grandfather, he is my ancestor and you are correct he held no land in Tipperary. As far as I know the Colonel Daniel Abbott is no relation and one of his nieces married married one of the local landed gentry in Nenagh, name escapes me. D'ont know if he was married or had any children, no evidence. As regard the John 'God be with us ' Abbott, I think he was mistaken for our John Abbott who was here in Ireland since 1612 long before the Cromwellian wars and was compensated along with Richard for damage to their properties during the war. The John 'God be with us ' Abbott may have come over with Cromwell and left with him as I cannot find any more evidence about him. If you want to meet some new distant cousins go on to 'Facebook ' and you can connect with your relatives that went to Australia and they can tell you more about the Kingsmill, Palmer & Abbott connections..it's a new 'closed group' under the heading 'Abbott's of Dungog in Violet hill' which is in Australia. The 'Abbott's have had a fascinating and illustrious history in Canada, America, Australia, Tasmania and in New Zealand and seem to have being split into farmers and lawyers , even helping to create the 'Australian Constitution ' that person was knighted by Queen Victoria and others were also knighted in Australia. In all the countries they arrived on they took part in the administration and politics of these countries and did very well for themselves and to this day. You can contact me at johnfkelly1@yahoo.co.uk or on Facebook under John Abbott-Kelly.
My tree can be found on the 'Ancestry website' as the 'Kelly/Abbott Family Tree if you are on 'Ancestry ' send me your 'username ' or email and I will send you an invite to view it. I am also working on my 'Wikitree ' but there is a lot more on 'Ancestry.' Please get in touch would love to be able to help you. Found out today there are now 41 different lines in Australia and that's a lot of family.
Regards John .

Hi Ela,

While I'm here I now know the Spencer link and can put you in touch with my cousin who has figured that part out, because it also relates to him, and he can fill you in.

Regards John

Hello John

I only just saw your message, thank you. I think I may be in touch with your cousin already (is it Brendan?). Would you let me know? You do share a very small amount of DNA with my mother, 2.8 cM on chr 5. Maybe there is some long ago connection there, as I take it you are not related to the Spencers. Anyway, thanks. All the best, Laurie

 

 

 

 

 

Hi jfk123

Thanks for your quick response.  I very much look forward to corresponding with you.  Since Richard Abbott of Cork was your 8th great grandfather I am counting on you to help unravel the mystery of how the Abbotts of Cork came to establish a linkage to the Abbotts of Tipperary...as well as helping to weave together the stories of both lines.  Thanks for providing your contact information and the reference to the distant Abbott cousins in Australia.  (I may breakdown and join "Facebook" just to look in on that site.)  I am on Ancestry; my username is "happenstance"; my Ancestry tree is open but only covers four generations of my family in the United States.  Better: johnmabbott@earthlink.net

Although I have not....yet...been able to establish my great grandfather's Tipperary parentage, the search has prompted a deep-dive into 17th-18th-19th century Irish/English history which I am thoroughly enjoying.  Lots of research into the Elizabethan Plantation of Munster, English Civil War, the New Model Army, The Irish Catholic rebellion of the 1640s, the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland, the military occupation of Ireland during the interregnum, and the Cromwellian and Restoration land settlement.  I now have a pretty good picture of the life and times of Col. Daniel Abbott.

A couple of remarks on the early Abbotts of County Cork:  (This is from memory since my records are temporarily in storage and will not be available for several weeks.)The Bennett history of Bandon has two tables showing the early settlers of the English Plantations near Bandon. The first from circa 1590 includes an Abbott (as well as a Sweete).  A second table circa 1610 does not include either of these names.  Historians say that the early plantation (Beecher, et. al.) started out well but faltered when the Spanish invaded and occupied south coastal Cork in the 1590s.  Because of the lack of security many of the settlers fled back to England. The English drove the Spanish out by 1601 but it took a few years for the Munster plantation to recover.  My (undocumented) speculation is that the arrival in 1612 of the young John Abbott was probably the return of the son or grandson of the earlier Abbott settler, returning to claim his inheritance. This would have been a few years before Lord Cork started buying out all the seigneuries around Bandon.  (I have seen the references that John was from Hal stock in Devon.  I think this must be incorrect.  I have been unable to find any Halstock in Devon.  But there is a Halstock in Dorset, near the Somerset county line. And there are records of a significant concentration of Abbotts in this neighborhood in the 16th/17th century.  And historians say that a large number of the English plantations of Munster came from the Dorset/Somerset area.)

John Abbott had land holdings in Derraghsalagh, a townland a couple of kilometers southwest of Bandon.  This seems to have been a freehold since it remained in the family for well over a century.  John and Jane Seymour had a large family and John eventually lived to a very old age, dying around 1680, having outlived a couple of his sons.  John and his third son Richard both filed claims for losses due to the uprising and depredations of the Irish Catholics in 1641.  John claimed losses of over 1,000 pounds; Richard for over 400, indicating they were both fairly prosperous.  Richard held a lease from Lord Cork on a property in West Carbary, a few kilometers west of his father's property in Derraghsalagh.  In addition to his own family, John had a brother, Henry, who lived nearby.  Although there is every indication the Cork Abbotts were well connected among the protestant settlers around Bandon, I have been unable to find any record of their activities during the long period of the Catholic insurrection between 1641 and 1649.  Others of their peers were documented as organizing and leading militia to defend their embattled estates or as moving off their farms into the walled town of Bandon for greater security.  Nothing is recorded of what the Abbotts did.  

During the Catholic uprising, the New English settlers of Cork (and Munster generally) were Royalists.  That is, they were loyal to the protestant English King; they looked to the King for security against the Catholics because it was the English monarchy that had sponsored the plantation of Munster by English Protestants.  They were under attack and had little time or inclination to choose sides in the on-going English Civil War, with its divisions between the Royalists and Parliamentarians.  But by 1647 the King was defeated and captured by the Parliamentary Army.  In January 1649 Charles I was tried and beheaded;; his son, Charles II was in exile in Europe; and the ascendant Cromwellians turned their attention to re-conquest of Ireland to punish the Catholics for their rebellion against English authority.  It was a time to choose for the New English protestant settlers.  In the fall of 1649, led by the energetic Lord Broghill (third son of Lord Cork), many of the protestant militia Munster garrisons switched allegiance, away from simply defending against catholic penetration to actively supporting the advancing forces of Oliver Cromwell.  Broghill organized a large regiment and merged with Cromwell's invasion army.

It is unclear where the Cork Abbotts were in this turbulence.  In the postwar land settlement John Abbott and his brother Henry were given grants of land confiscated from rebellious Catholics.  John in West Carbary; Henry in Co Limerick. Son Richard was listed as a "1649 soldier."   In one record, John Abbott is listed as "Col John Abbott."   I can find no record that Col John Abbott was a member of Cromwell's invading army.  Perhaps he was the head of a militia that formed part of Broghill's large regiment, although I have not been able to find a record.  Another possibility is that the Abbott brothers were Broghill loyalists and were rewarded for their loyalty; Broghill spent a lot of time and energy during the Cromwellian occupation and during the subsequent restoration, maneuvering to see that his supporters got their fair share of the spoils of the confiscation of catholic lands.  Another possibility is that the Abbotts were opportunists.  Being on-the-spot they might have bought out the properties of grantees who had no interest in settling in Ireland.  As a "1649 soldier," son Richard probably had been a member of a militia that organized to defend against rebellious Catholics. Many of the young protestant gentry of Bandon did this.   This category campaigned to be rewarded for their efforts to suppress the catholic rebellion but, in the end, received little.

It appears that John Abbott came out of the 17th century Irish tumult in a strengthened position.  He held his property in Derraghsalagh and added to properties he was granted.  His heirs still held these properties in the mid-18th century.  Henry is harder to document.  I have some fragmentary records which I still have not fully deciphered. Sometime in the 1660s Richard sold off the remaining term of the property he had leased from Lord Cork. This would have been about the time his father got confirmation of his grant of confiscated property.  Perhaps Richard was taking over the management of his father's new properties.  Or..............perhaps Richard had been invited over to Northern Tipperary to manage the properties granted to Col. Daniel Abbott.  But this is a speculation for another day.

Happenstance

 

 

Hi jfk123

Thanks for your quick response.  I very much look forward to corresponding with you.  Since Richard Abbott of Cork was your 8th great grandfather I am counting on you to help unravel the mystery of how the Abbotts of Cork came to establish a linkage to the Abbotts of Tipperary...as well as helping to weave together the stories of both lines.  Thanks for providing your contact information and the reference to the distant Abbott cousins in Australia.  (I may breakdown and join "Facebook" just to look in on that site.)  I am on Ancestry; my username is "happenstance"; my Ancestry tree is open but only covers four generations of my family in the United States.  Better: johnmabbott@earthlink.net

Although I have not....yet...been able to establish my great grandfather's Tipperary parentage, the search has prompted a deep-dive into 17th-18th-19th century Irish/English history which I am thoroughly enjoying.  Lots of research into the Elizabethan Plantation of Munster, English Civil War, the New Model Army, The Irish Catholic rebellion of the 1640s, the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland, the military occupation of Ireland during the interregnum, and the Cromwellian and Restoration land settlement.  I now have a pretty good picture of the life and times of Col. Daniel Abbott.

A couple of remarks on the early Abbotts of County Cork:  (This is from memory since my records are temporarily in storage and will not be available for several weeks.)The Bennett history of Bandon has two tables showing the early settlers of the English Plantations near Bandon. The first from circa 1590 includes an Abbott (as well as a Sweete).  A second table circa 1610 does not include either of these names.  Historians say that the early plantation (Beecher, et. al.) started out well but faltered when the Spanish invaded and occupied south coastal Cork in the 1590s.  Because of the lack of security many of the settlers fled back to England. The English drove the Spanish out by 1601 but it took a few years for the Munster plantation to recover.  My (undocumented) speculation is that the arrival in 1612 of the young John Abbott was probably the return of the son or grandson of the earlier Abbott settler, returning to claim his inheritance. This would have been a few years before Lord Cork started buying out all the seigneuries around Bandon.  (I have seen the references that John was from Hal stock in Devon.  I think this must be incorrect.  I have been unable to find any Halstock in Devon.  But there is a Halstock in Dorset, near the Somerset county line. And there are records of a significant concentration of Abbotts in this neighborhood in the 16th/17th century.  And historians say that a large number of the English plantations of Munster came from the Dorset/Somerset area.)

John Abbott had land holdings in Derraghsalagh, a townland a couple of kilometers southwest of Bandon.  This seems to have been a freehold since it remained in the family for well over a century.  John and Jane Seymour had a large family and John eventually lived to a very old age, dying around 1680, having outlived a couple of his sons.  John and his third son Richard both filed claims for losses due to the uprising and depredations of the Irish Catholics in 1641.  John claimed losses of over 1,000 pounds; Richard for over 400, indicating they were both fairly prosperous.  Richard held a lease from Lord Cork on a property in West Carbary, a few kilometers west of his father's property in Derraghsalagh.  In addition to his own family, John had a brother, Henry, who lived nearby.  Although there is every indication the Cork Abbotts were well connected among the protestant settlers around Bandon, I have been unable to find any record of their activities during the long period of the Catholic insurrection between 1641 and 1649.  Others of their peers were documented as organizing and leading militia to defend their embattled estates or as moving off their farms into the walled town of Bandon for greater security.  Nothing is recorded of what the Abbotts did.  

During the Catholic uprising, the New English settlers of Cork (and Munster generally) were Royalists.  That is, they were loyal to the protestant English King; they looked to the King for security against the Catholics because it was the English monarchy that had sponsored the plantation of Munster by English Protestants.  They were under attack and had little time or inclination to choose sides in the on-going English Civil War, with its divisions between the Royalists and Parliamentarians.  But by 1647 the King was defeated and captured by the Parliamentary Army.  In January 1649 Charles I was tried and beheaded;; his son, Charles II was in exile in Europe; and the ascendant Cromwellians turned their attention to re-conquest of Ireland to punish the Catholics for their rebellion against English authority.  It was a time to choose for the New English protestant settlers.  In the fall of 1649, led by the energetic Lord Broghill (third son of Lord Cork), many of the protestant militia Munster garrisons switched allegiance, away from simply defending against catholic penetration to actively supporting the advancing forces of Oliver Cromwell.  Broghill organized a large regiment and merged with Cromwell's invasion army.

It is unclear where the Cork Abbotts were in this turbulence.  In the postwar land settlement John Abbott and his brother Henry were given grants of land confiscated from rebellious Catholics.  John in West Carbary; Henry in Co Limerick. Son Richard was listed as a "1649 soldier."   In one record, John Abbott is listed as "Col John Abbott."   I can find no record that Col John Abbott was a member of Cromwell's invading army.  Perhaps he was the head of a militia that formed part of Broghill's large regiment, although I have not been able to find a record.  Another possibility is that the Abbott brothers were Broghill loyalists and were rewarded for their loyalty; Broghill spent a lot of time and energy during the Cromwellian occupation and during the subsequent restoration, maneuvering to see that his supporters got their fair share of the spoils of the confiscation of catholic lands.  Another possibility is that the Abbotts were opportunists.  Being on-the-spot they might have bought out the properties of grantees who had no interest in settling in Ireland.  As a "1649 soldier," son Richard probably had been a member of a militia that organized to defend against rebellious Catholics. Many of the young protestant gentry of Bandon did this.   This category campaigned to be rewarded for their efforts to suppress the catholic rebellion but, in the end, received little.

It appears that John Abbott came out of the 17th century Irish tumult in a strengthened position.  He held his property in Derraghsalagh and added to properties he was granted.  His heirs still held these properties in the mid-18th century.  Henry is harder to document.  I have some fragmentary records which I still have not fully deciphered. Sometime in the 1660s Richard sold off the remaining term of the property he had leased from Lord Cork. This would have been about the time his father got confirmation of his grant of confiscated property.  Perhaps Richard was taking over the management of his father's new properties.  Or..............perhaps Richard had been invited over to Northern Tipperary to manage the properties granted to Col. Daniel Abbott.  But this is a speculation for another day.

Happenstance

 

 

Hi jfk123

Thanks for your quick response.  I very much look forward to corresponding with you.  Since Richard Abbott of Cork was your 8th great grandfather I am counting on you to help unravel the mystery of how the Abbotts of Cork came to establish a linkage to the Abbotts of Tipperary...as well as helping to weave together the stories of both lines.  Thanks for providing your contact information and the reference to the distant Abbott cousins in Australia.  (I may breakdown and join "Facebook" just to look in on that site.)  I am on Ancestry; my username is "happenstance"; my Ancestry tree is open but only covers four generations of my family in the United States.  Better: johnmabbott@earthlink.net

Although I have not....yet...been able to establish my great grandfather's Tipperary parentage, the search has prompted a deep-dive into 17th-18th-19th century Irish/English history which I am thoroughly enjoying.  Lots of research into the Elizabethan Plantation of Munster, English Civil War, the New Model Army, The Irish Catholic rebellion of the 1640s, the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland, the military occupation of Ireland during the interregnum, and the Cromwellian and Restoration land settlement.  I now have a pretty good picture of the life and times of Col. Daniel Abbott.

A couple of remarks on the early Abbotts of County Cork:  (This is from memory since my records are temporarily in storage and will not be available for several weeks.)The Bennett history of Bandon has two tables showing the early settlers of the English Plantations near Bandon. The first from circa 1590 includes an Abbott (as well as a Sweete).  A second table circa 1610 does not include either of these names.  Historians say that the early plantation (Beecher, et. al.) started out well but faltered when the Spanish invaded and occupied south coastal Cork in the 1590s.  Because of the lack of security many of the settlers fled back to England. The English drove the Spanish out by 1601 but it took a few years for the Munster plantation to recover.  My (undocumented) speculation is that the arrival in 1612 of the young John Abbott was probably the return of the son or grandson of the earlier Abbott settler, returning to claim his inheritance. This would have been a few years before Lord Cork started buying out all the seigneuries around Bandon.  (I have seen the references that John was from Hal stock in Devon.  I think this must be incorrect.  I have been unable to find any Halstock in Devon.  But there is a Halstock in Dorset, near the Somerset county line. And there are records of a significant concentration of Abbotts in this neighborhood in the 16th/17th century.  And historians say that a large number of the English plantations of Munster came from the Dorset/Somerset area.)

John Abbott had land holdings in Derraghsalagh, a townland a couple of kilometers southwest of Bandon.  This seems to have been a freehold since it remained in the family for well over a century.  John and Jane Seymour had a large family and John eventually lived to a very old age, dying around 1680, having outlived a couple of his sons.  John and his third son Richard both filed claims for losses due to the uprising and depredations of the Irish Catholics in 1641.  John claimed losses of over 1,000 pounds; Richard for over 400, indicating they were both fairly prosperous.  Richard held a lease from Lord Cork on a property in West Carbary, a few kilometers west of his father's property in Derraghsalagh.  In addition to his own family, John had a brother, Henry, who lived nearby.  Although there is every indication the Cork Abbotts were well connected among the protestant settlers around Bandon, I have been unable to find any record of their activities during the long period of the Catholic insurrection between 1641 and 1649.  Others of their peers were documented as organizing and leading militia to defend their embattled estates or as moving off their farms into the walled town of Bandon for greater security.  Nothing is recorded of what the Abbotts did.  

During the Catholic uprising, the New English settlers of Cork (and Munster generally) were Royalists.  That is, they were loyal to the protestant English King; they looked to the King for security against the Catholics because it was the English monarchy that had sponsored the plantation of Munster by English Protestants.  They were under attack and had little time or inclination to choose sides in the on-going English Civil War, with its divisions between the Royalists and Parliamentarians.  But by 1647 the King was defeated and captured by the Parliamentary Army.  In January 1649 Charles I was tried and beheaded;; his son, Charles II was in exile in Europe; and the ascendant Cromwellians turned their attention to re-conquest of Ireland to punish the Catholics for their rebellion against English authority.  It was a time to choose for the New English protestant settlers.  In the fall of 1649, led by the energetic Lord Broghill (third son of Lord Cork), many of the protestant militia Munster garrisons switched allegiance, away from simply defending against catholic penetration to actively supporting the advancing forces of Oliver Cromwell.  Broghill organized a large regiment and merged with Cromwell's invasion army.

It is unclear where the Cork Abbotts were in this turbulence.  In the postwar land settlement John Abbott and his brother Henry were given grants of land confiscated from rebellious Catholics.  John in West Carbary; Henry in Co Limerick. Son Richard was listed as a "1649 soldier."   In one record, John Abbott is listed as "Col John Abbott."   I can find no record that Col John Abbott was a member of Cromwell's invading army.  Perhaps he was the head of a militia that formed part of Broghill's large regiment, although I have not been able to find a record.  Another possibility is that the Abbott brothers were Broghill loyalists and were rewarded for their loyalty; Broghill spent a lot of time and energy during the Cromwellian occupation and during the subsequent restoration, maneuvering to see that his supporters got their fair share of the spoils of the confiscation of catholic lands.  Another possibility is that the Abbotts were opportunists.  Being on-the-spot they might have bought out the properties of grantees who had no interest in settling in Ireland.  As a "1649 soldier," son Richard probably had been a member of a militia that organized to defend against rebellious Catholics. Many of the young protestant gentry of Bandon did this.   This category campaigned to be rewarded for their efforts to suppress the catholic rebellion but, in the end, received little.

It appears that John Abbott came out of the 17th century Irish tumult in a strengthened position.  He held his property in Derraghsalagh and added to properties he was granted.  His heirs still held these properties in the mid-18th century.  Henry is harder to document.  I have some fragmentary records which I still have not fully deciphered. Sometime in the 1660s Richard sold off the remaining term of the property he had leased from Lord Cork. This would have been about the time his father got confirmation of his grant of confiscated property.  Perhaps Richard was taking over the management of his father's new properties.  Or..............perhaps Richard had been invited over to Northern Tipperary to manage the properties granted to Col. Daniel Abbott.  But this is a speculation for another day.

Happenstance

 

 

Hi Laurie,

Yes Brendan Abbott is my 1st cousin. I'm not related to the Spencers as far as I know. I'm sure Brendan has you filled in on that line. But many of the protestant families married into each other's families even more than once and that's how you get all the various connections and dna connections. Take care and keep in touch.
Regards John

Hi Happenstance ,

That's some great info and research you've done there regarding Cromwell, Lord Cork, Broghill ,etc. Did not know there was an Abbott before 1612 and that John had a brother Henry, it's hard to know where to begin with all the research you've done. There was a Halstock in Devon and Halstock Chapel is still there on the edge of Dartmoor but the village was abandoned in medieval times but like you said there are many Abbott's in Dorset /Somerset and maybe somewhere along the line the Devon/Dorset got mixed up or maybe families from both areas were related. I did get in touch with the Devon O.C.C. they were very helpful and sent a link about Halstock Chapel and the history but because it was so far back were unable to find any 'Abbott ' families I think there were 5 families living there before it was abandoned or they were moved.I will send you the link. It would be great if you were to find the Abbott family in England and we could trace back even further. You have given me a lot to think about , I think the Abbotts were opportunists and took advantage of different situations, they would definitely have to be involved in the militia and I would say John was probably given the rank of Colonel in the Militia .I will see what I can find thanks to your research but keep it up and keep me informed. I will send you a link to my tree it is an ongoing process.
Regards John .

Hi

It's just a shame you haven't found a connection with the abbotts from adrigole

Regards Phil

I am ran across this discussion through a Google search.   I have been trying for some time to find the parents of my third great grandfather, Francis Abbott.   I noticed in the discussion the mention of Abbotts in Cloughjordan.   Those are my ancestors on my father's maternal side.   Francis was born on 3 Oct 1787 in Cloughjordan.   He married Elizabeth Jane Dagg on 14 Oct 1814 iin Modreeny.   She was born in 1796 (or 1798) in Borrisokane.   Her father was Richard Dagg born in Modreeny and her mother was Esther.   Francis and Elizabeth had five sons in Cloughjordan before emigrating to Canada in 1825.   Those sons were Thomas, Richard, John, James, and Francis.   It is my understanding that Francis was a farmer.   In my searching, I have seen reference to a link between Francis and Nenagh Castle.   I have also read that there is a link to a John Abbott who went to Ireland as a Cromwellian soldier, who I see mentioned in the discussions.   I also read somewhere that there is a link between the Abbotts in Cloughjordan and Col Daniel Abbott who received Nenagh Castle as a grant after serving for Cromwell (and that Daniel married the 2nd daughter of Col Thomas Sadleir).   Despite all of this information, I have not been able to find the parents of Francis.   I do believe this line of Abbotts did originate in England but I have been unable to find the link without finding evidence of Francis' parents.   Any insight would be greatly appreciated.   With my thanks, Dawn

 

 

 

Hi dawn

When I was researching the sullivan family I discovered a Daniel sullivan who married a Mary Abbott
I too would love to go back further
One branch is the family went to Wales, ( Merthyr) one went to Canada
We may be related have you done the ancestry DNA test ??

My email address

Is moonphil2649@yahoo.co.uk

Regards Phil

Hi Dawn and Phil,

The record of Francis Abbott in Canada is discussed in Bruce S. Elliott, "Irish Migrants in the Canadas: A New Approach," McGill University Press, Montreal and Kingston, 2004. Illustration 7 is a picture of Francis Abbott.

My father was a "Francis Abbott" so I have followed this for some time.

By the early 1800s there were numerous Abbotts in North Tipperary in Ballingary and Modrenney parishes and  just across the county line in Shinrone in Kings County (now County Offaly). (Check the C of I parish records for Modreeny aand Shinrone, which I believe are now available on-line.)  These Abbotts were (almost) all Protestant.  Some were members of the minor gentry and many were among the "strong farmer" and tradesmen class.  At the end of the Nepoleonic Wars (1815) prosperity waned and many second and third and fourth sons looked for better opportunities abroad. Francis seems to have been one.  Numerous Tipperary Abbotts followed Francis Abbott to Canada.

I am still trying to find my great grandfather (a John Abbott)  among the many Abbotts who left Co Tipperary after the famine so I am no

help on the genealogy of Francis Abbott.

The officer who came to Tipperary with Cromwell's Army was Col Daniel Abbott (not John).  He  received grants of over 6,000 acres (English measure) of lands in North Tipperary confiscated from Irish catholics.  This transpired between 1650-1670. I am still trying to trace the lineage between Col Daniel of the late 17th century and the Abbotts who populated Ballingary and Shinrone in the 19th century.  My current thinking is that the line comes down through a nephew of Col. Abbott who married a daughter of Col. Thomas Sadlier. (It was not Col Daniel Abbott himself who married the daughter of Col. Thomas Sadlier; see the later (20th century) versions of Burke's peerage of the Irish landed gentry.)  Even so, it is difficult to trace the Abbott line down from Col Abbott to Francis Abbott or the Abbotts of Shinrone.

happenstance

 

 

Thank you Happenstance for the information.   I do have Bruce Elliott's book as well as the Descendents of Francis Abbott and Jane Dagg.  The latter is where I saw reference to Nenagh Castle.   The photo in Elliott's book is among the family photos we have of our Abbott ancestors.   I do have photos of Francis and Jane, almost all of their children, and down to my paternal grandmother (Hilda Paynter) whose parents were John James Paynter and Mary Ann Abbott (granddaughter of Frrancis).   Francis and his family were definitely Protestant and census records to indicate that he was a farmer as were several of his sons.   Their reasons for leaving Ireland are as you say according to the stories my family have.   I have seen reference to both a John Abbott and Daniel Abbott as Cromwellian soldiers but fully agree that it is Daniel.   Interesting to find out that it was a nephew of his who married one of Thomas Sadleir's daughter.   Strange that so many historical documents got this wrong.   I have been trying to trace Daniel since I found is name and connection to Nenagh but can't even find when and where he was born.   I thought if I could find his family and descendents, I might find links to Francis.   The search continues!  Thanks for your response.  Dawn

 

 

 

Reply to Dawn & John Kelly-Abbott regarding Col Daniel Abbott and Nenagh Castle

Summary.  In March you posted regarding links between Col. Daniel Abbott, a Cromwellian officer, and Nenagh Castle.  This is a topic that was considered in some detail in several articles by Dermot F. Gleeson published in the 1930s and ‘40s.[1] Gleeson’s history of the Castle and Manor of Nenagh in the 17th century is a case study in the land settlement and resettlement issues that roiled North Tipperary in the Cromwellian and Restoration periods (1649-1670). Col Abbott did reside in Nenagh Castle and he did have a lease from the Countess of Ormond on part of Nenagh Manor during the Cromwellian occupation. But Col Abbott never owned the property. By the time Francis Abbott was born in 1787 the castle had not been occupied for almost 100 years and the heirs of the Duke and Duchess of Ormond had long since sold the property to third parties. Francis Abbott’s baptismal record showing that he was born at Nenagh Castle could only have been a reference to the neighborhood in central Nenagh where his family was living at the time of his birth. Francis’ family must have been city folks because the Castle was—and still is—at the very heart of Nenagh Town. Gleeson’s work does not resolve the question of whether the Francis Abbott born in 1787 was or was not a direct or indirect descendent of Col Abbott.  That is still an open question. However, Gleeson’s studies do clarify numerous genealogical points related to Col Abbott.  End Summary.

Nenagh Castle and Manor owned by the Countess of Ormond. During the 17th century, through an extremely complex marriage arrangement, the Castle and Manor of Nenagh (as well as vast additional lands in Upper and Lower Ormond) were the inheritance and personal possessions of Lady Elizabeth Butler Preston.[2] The castle was a massive fortress with some residential space.  The Manor consisted of a 15- hearth manor house and demesne lands of about 1,100 acres in what is now central Nenagh.  In 1629, at the age of 14 ½ Lady Elizabeth married the 19 year old James Butler, Viscount of Thurles.[3]  Viscount James (the future Duke of Ormond) was heir to the Earldom of Ormond, one of the most prestigious and landed Lordships in Ireland, with vast properties in County Tipperary and County Kilkenney.  James and Elizabeth were distant cousins. Unlike almost all their Butler kinsmen, both were Protestants. The marriage and the property settlement were sponsored by King Charles I.  Earl James Butler became the King’s representative in Ireland and one of the most prominent figures in 17th century Irish history.[4] The Earl and Countess had major properties outside of Tipperary and never resided at the Castle or Manor of Nenagh. During the Countess’ lifetime, except for Cromwellian times, the Manor of Nenagh was occupied by Sir George Hamilton, the Countess brother-in-law. A Catholic, Hamilton had the Royal concession for the nearby Silvermines and was one of the richest men in Tipperary.[5]

Col Abbott Occupies Nenagh. In October 1650 the Cromwellian Army overran Nenagh in its advance toward Limerick. Col Daniel Abbott, the commander of a dragoon regiment, was in the middle of the battle.  Sir George Hamilton had garrisoned the Castle and attempted to defend Nenagh but was soon forced to surrender on terms on October 29, 1650.  Hamilton was allowed to march out with his troops and he himself soon went into exile in France, joining Earl James.[6]

Col. Abbott was appointed Governor of Nenagh and was assigned to garrison the castle and to secure the surrounding countryside, where active resistance continued for another year and one half.  Abbott established his regimental headquarters at Nenagh Castle where he took up residence and stayed throughout the Commonwealth (Cromwellian) period until the restoration of Charles II in 1660.

As the King’s man in Ireland, the Marques of Ormond had led the resistance to the Cromwellian invasion and, not withstanding that he was a Protestant, his  properties were declared forfeit and were confiscated under the Cromwellian land settlement.[7]   The Countess properties, including Nenagh castle, however, were exempted from confiscation based on explicit instructions from the Parliament in London.[8]  She had friends in high places and made a persuasive case that she had come to the aid of Irish Protestants during the rebellion.[9] Although Col Abbott had possession of the Castle and much of the Manor, he held it under lease.[10] It was never a property granted to him in satisfaction of his arrears.[11]  Very shortly after the Restoration of King Charles II in 1660 the Countess of Ormond was restored to possession of the Castle and Manor.  Abbott and his family were summarily evicted and his lease cancelled.[12]

The Castle and Manor remained in the hands of the Duke and Duchess for the remainder of their lives. Upper and Lower Ormond were on the front lines of the Williamite wars (1688-92). The castle was a center of combat and changed hands several times and was badly damaged.  In the spring of 1692 orders were given that the castle was to be “rendered indefensible in ill hands.” Though the habitable parts of the castle were to be spared, “the castle was never thereafter used as a residence.”[13]

On the death of the First Duke in 1688 the Duke and Duchess’ vast estates passed to the Second Duke, their grandson, also a James Butler. But this huge inheritance was deeply in debt and in 1703 large parts of it were sold off, including the Castle and Manor, and the whole town of Nenagh, which were sold to Nehemiah Donnelan, Chief Baron of the Exchequer. The Donnelan family sold the town and Manor to the Holmes family in 1733. [14]  

 

[1] Dermot F. Gleeson and H.G. Leask, “The Castle and Manor of Nenagh,” Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, Volume LXVI, (December 1936); Dermot F. Gleeson, The Last Lords of Ormond  (London: Sheed and Ward, 1938, (particularly Chapter VI); Dermot F. Gleeson, The Last Lords of Ormond, new edition with revisions, by Donal A. Murphy (Nenagh, Co Tipperary: Relay Books, 2001); Dermot F. Gleeson, “The Manor of Ballinaclogh in Ormond,” The Munster Antiquarian Journal, Vol 3, no. 3 (Spring 1943), pp. 129-143; and Dermot F. Gleeson, “The Silver Mines of Ormond, The Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, Vol. LXVII (consecutive series, 1937), pp. 101-116.

[2] Historical Manuscripts Commission, “Articles of agreement for the Marriage of James, Viscount Thurles and Lady Elizabeth Preston [26 August 1629], Calendar of the Manuscripts of the Marquis of Ormond, K.P.: Preserved at Kilkenney Castle, New Series, Vol. II, (London: H.M.S.O. 1903), pp.355-359, 359-365.

[3] Through the years, the couples’ rank in the nobility advanced: to Earl and Countess in 1633 on the death of James’ grandfather; to Marquess and Marchoness in 1642 as a reward by King Charles I for loyal service; and to Duke and Duchess on the restoration of King Charles II in  1660.

[4] David Edwards, “The Poisoned Chalice: The Ormond Inheritance, Sectarian Division and the Emergence of James Butler, 1614-1642; in, Toby Barnard and Jane Fenlon (eds), The Dukes of Ormond, 1610-1745,  (The Boydell Press, 2000); pp.55-82.

[5] Gleeson, “The Silver Mines of Ormond,” pp. 106-109.

[6] Gleeson, The Last Lords of Ormond, PP. 81-86

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_for_the_Settlement_of_Ireland_1652

[8] Historical Manuscripts Commission, “Order of Parliament, Etc, Concerning the Duchess of Ormond,” Calendar of Manuscripts of Marquis of Ormond, pp. 373-375

[9] Ibid., “Letters and Attestation Testifying to the Conduct of Elizabeth, Duchess of Ormond, During the Rebellion.” Pp. 367-373.

[10] [“By lease dated 6 September 1655 Lady Elizabeth Butler, countess of Ormond, granted to Colonel Daniel Abbott of Nenagh ‘the manor, castle and lands of Nenagh in as large a manner as Sir George Hamilton enjoyed for the same’, for a term of forty-one years at a rent of L80 for the first year and L120 p.a. thereafter—Ormond Deeds, 9, D42256.] as quoted by Gleeson in Last Lords of Ormond, revised edition, p. 211, fn 20.

[11] Gleeson confuses this point in some of his writings.  The information about the leases, and its terms, as stated in the preceeding footnote, only appeared in the revised edition of his book which was not published until 2001.

[12] Gleeson. The Last Lords of Ormond. P. 164-165.  The original source cited by Gleeson states that “Abbott and his family” were evicted.  This is the only documentary source I have been able to find that records that Col Abbott had a “family” although there are records that he had a wife.  When Abbott died in 1688 his widow, Ana, was appointed administrator of his estate.

[13] Gleeson. “The Castle and Manor of Nenagh.” P. 257-260; Gleeson, Last Lord of Ormond, pp. 217-222.

[14] Gleeson, “The Castle and Manor of Nenagh,” pp. 258-260.

We'd love if you added your Abbots to our Ancestors roll-call. Here's how...

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Hello, 

 

Great to find this site!. My name is Jeremy , and I decend from the Canadian Abbotts that settled in london ontario. My gedmatch is TB4674825. I think I have my connection to the right Abbotts. It looks like John Abbott 1643 stewart of the king's is the father of Thomas and his six sisters.I think john 1643 was son of John from cork 1610. Thomas was born in dublin 1688. His son George Abbott (1720) married Cisly Netterville. That had Samuel Abbott 1759, He married Mary Gunning from Hodson House. Thay Had a bunch of kids, My great X3 grandfather was Alexander S Abbott from Galway, He married Dorinda Ruxton and moved to London Ontario Canada. There he became the city clerk for 40 years. My great great grand father was Samuel Abbott 1840, he married Maria Lousia Calhoun. They had a bunch, my great grandfather was dr Samuel Abbott 1880, Surgon in WW1. He married Margaret Cameron of Fort William scotland. They had 4 daughters , My grandmother Joyce Abbott 1923, she married Frank Brown, My Father was Ian Brown. 

 

These Abbott have amazing lives of adventure over the last 400 years, It's great to see some of us still keeping track of the stories.

 

Great to find this site!

 

Jeremy