I'm looking for family ancestry, my mother Dympna Margaret Forbes born 30/05/1942 in Carrickmacross, Co. Monaghan. Alex Forbes and Julia (nee Garland) were her parents. Any descendants or siblings. She travelled to uk, where I was born, but have no history thereafter.
Thanks for any help.
J,
Are you looking for living persons....e.g., Dympna?
Or are you looking for information about her parents?
Or both?
Just checking.
Attached is marriage record of Alex Forbes and Margaret Garland. They married in Castleblayney in 1939.
Hi, yes , currently focused on living , as i live in UK, I'm looking to find siblings and their descendants, to gather the family tree.
I was not sure where to search myself, so reached out here. So any help/guidance would be great.
Thanks
John
Perhaps post a query on this Castleblayney message board: https://www.facebook.com/groups/359169465442306/
Patricia,
Thanks for marriage cert. Was Castleblayney the central registry office then/now?
John
PS. Are those records searchable online, and which site url, so I can also widen my scope for extended family.
www.irishgenealogy.ie
www.rootsireland.ie
Good luck.
Hello John,
I'm not related but found some information about your ancestors that you may be interested in.
The church marriage record kindly provided by Patricia provides a basis for further research of your Forbes and Garland ancestors. As you can see the church record is a challenge to read because of the handwriting, which appears to be illegible in some places.
What the marriage record tells you is that Alexander Forbes and Julia Anne "Gartland" were married in the Sacred Heart Church of Lough Egish on 28 June 1939. Both were of "full age," which means they were 21 years old or older at the time of marriage. Neither had been married before, as Alexander was a Bachelor and Julia a Spinster. Alexander's occupation at the time of marriage was "Farmer." His residence at the time of marriage was Innishkeen, County Monaghan. I believe that Innishkeen refers to the townland of Inishkeen Glebe, Civil Parish of Inishkeen, as noted in the IreAtlas Townland Data Base: https://tinyurl.com/djkm3ttf
The marriage record further shows that Alexander’s father was A. Forbes, a "Farmer" who was "deceased." No occupation is recorded for Julia. Her residence at the time of marriage was Cornacarrow, County Monaghan. The priest who married Alexander and Julia was John Crudden. The initials "C C" after Father Crudden's name stands for "Catholic Curate." One of the witnesses to the marriage was Michael Gartland. The first name of the second witness is Mollie. I couldn't make out her last name with certainty. Michael Gartland may have been Julia's brother. Both Alexander and Julia signed the marriage record without assistance, which means they could read and write.
The Sacred Heart Church of Lough Egish was likely Julia's parish church, as Irish marriages traditionally took place, and still take place in the bride's parish.
The church is located in the townland of Aghmakerr. A Google Map shows that Julia's town of Cornacarrow is 2.6 miles east of the Church of the Sacred Heart Lough Egish. The location of the church on the map is indicated by the red teardrop icon: https://tinyurl.com/259zt352
A Google Street of the church and graveyard can be seen at: https://tinyurl.com/4v36zjwk
Your mom was from Carrickmacross. This Google Map shows that Carrickmacross, indicated by the red teardrop icon just south of the town of Nafferty, is 10.1 miles south of Cornacarow and the Sacred Heart Church of Lough Egish: https://tinyurl.com/2vbzxpk7
According to the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website, the Catholic Church of the Sacred Heart in Aghmakerr, County Monaghan, was constructed in 1837. For more information and a slide presentation of the exterior and interior of the church, go to the Buildings of Ireland link at:
https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/41402420/catholic-church-of-the-sacred-heart-aghmakerr-Monaghan
Going back to the marriage record you'll notice that Julia's maiden name is spelled "Gartland," which is an alternate spelling for Garland. Earlier 19th and 20th century records that I uncovered for Julia and her family also spell the name Gartland, as you'll see coming up.
In looking at the marriage record I am now wondering if Alexander Forbes was even a Roman Catholic. Perhaps he belonged to the Presbyterian Church or Church Ireland, which is equivalent to the Anglican Church of England.
If Alexander was not a Catholic, he and Julia would have had to make a commitment to raise any children as Roman Catholics for the marriage to take place in the Catholic Church.
I now wanted to see if Alexander Forbes and Julia Gartland/Garland were recorded in the 1911 census. I didn't know if they would have been born by the time of the 1911 census.
I began the search with Alexander at the free National Archives of Ireland website census search form, which you can download at: https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
There is a newer version of the census search form, but I still use the old version as this is the version I've been using for several years.
I didn't find an Alexander Forbes recorded in the 1911 census anywhere in County Monaghan. I suspect his father's name was Alexander as well, as the 1939 marriage record shows that Alexander's father was “A. Forbes.”
I then looked for the surname Forbes only, without a first name in the 1911 census, but again did not find an Alexander/Alex/Alec, or Anthony/Arthur etc. Forbes in the 1911 census in County Monaghan.
I also looked for Alexander Forbes in County Monaghan in the 1901 census at the National Archives of Ireland website, but again without results.
Without his age given in the 1939 marriage record, I didn't know when Alexander Forbes was born. But I looked for his birth record at the free irishgenealogy.ie website at: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/
In her reply of 10 July 2025 Patricia had referenced the irishgenealogy.ie website along with the RootsIreland website. However, RootsIireland is a subscription website, but a very good website when looking for civil registration birth, marriage, and death transcriptions.
The irishgenenalogy.ie website on the other hand, provides transcriptions of Catholic baptisms, marriages, and available deaths/burials at no cost.
Civil registration began in Ireland in 1845, but at this time only Protestant marriages were recorded by the Irish government.
Civil registration of births, marriages, and death for all religious denominations were recorded by the Irish government beginning in 1864.
Birth records at irishgenealogy.ie are available from 1864 to 1924.
Marriages are available from 1845 (for Protestants) and from 1864 to 1949 for everyone.
Death records are only available from 1871, but up to 1974.
For more information see the civil records help link at irishgenealogy.ie: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/civil-records-help/
I looked for Alexander's birth in County Monaghan from the 1890s to 1921, but didn't find it. On the suspicion that the Forbes may have belonged to a Protestant denomination, I looked for the marriage records of anyone named Alexander Forbes in County Monaghan from 1845 into the 20th century, with the understanding that only Protestant marriages were recorded by the Irish government from 1845 to 1863.
I found two marriages, one for an Alexander Forbes and Mary Goldtrap, who were married on 18 March 1846, and the other for an Alexander Forbes who married Eliza Smith on 1 March 1855. Both marriages were recorded in the Castleblayney Registration District in the Presbyterian Meeting House, Castleblayney, Civil Parish of Muckno, also spelled Mucknoe in some records. To access the Forbes/Goldtrap marriage record from the irishgennealogy.ie website go to: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1846/09304/5368875.pdf
The marriage is the last entry in the register at number 9, and shows that both "Alexr" and Mary were 40 years old at the time of marriage. Alex had been a bachelor and Mary a widow. Alexander's occupation was "Farmer. His place of residence at the time of marriage is hard to make out because of the handwriting, but I think it's Creaghanroe. The marriage record also shows that Alexander's father was Alexr, also a "Farmer."
Mary's residence at the time of marriage is a "Do" of Alexander's residence. The Do stands for Ditto, meaning the same town, Creaghanroe. Mary's father is a "Farmer" named Patrick Mcilroy. Alexander and Mary were married "by license" by the Presbyterian minister, Thomas Boyd. The names of the two witnesses look like John and David Hilles.
The 1 March 1855 marriage of Alexander Forbes and Eliza Smith can be accessed at the irishgenenalogy.ie link at:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09486/5437667.pdf
The marriage is the last entry in the register, and shows that Alexander was a bachelor of "full age," but that Eliza was a 16 year old spinster. Alexander's occupation was "Farmer." His residence at the time of marriage also looks like Creaghanroe, Muckno, Monaghan. His father is James Forbes, a "Farmer."
Mary's residence at the time of marriage was Tullycanaghy, Muckno, Monaghan. Eliza's father is Jacob Smith, also a "Farmer."
The minister who married Alexander and Eliza was Thomas Boyd, who was the same minister who married Alexander and Mary Goldtrap in 1846. The witnesses to the marriage look like Isaac Hilles and Hamilton Mills. Eliza signed the marriage register with "her + mark," meaning she could not write her own name.
This Alexander's father was James, and so he would not have been the son of the Alexander Forbes who married Mary Goldtrap in 1846.
One, or both of the Alexander Forbes' in the Castleblayney Presbyterian Meeting House marriage records, may be in your mom's direct or collateral lines, but it is impossible to tell for certain just from the marriage records alone.
RECORDS FOR JULIA GARTLAND AND FAMILY
It took a bit of wrangling to find Julia and her family in the 1911 census at the National Archives of Ireland website, as the names are all in the Irish language. No other information is provided in the transcription, probably because the transcriber had a difficult time reading all the information in a copy of the original census, which is in Irish script, also known as "Irish character, Irish type, Gaelic type, Celtic script or the Uncial alphabet," according to the omniglot.com website: https://www.omniglot.com/writing/clogaelach.htm
See the 1911 census transcription at: https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Monaghan/Laragh/Cornacarrow/8013 68/
As you can see the transcription shows the “Ua Gartlan” family were the "Residents of a house 1 in Cornacarrow (Laragh, Monaghan)." Cornacarrow is the place of residence for Julia in her 1939 marriage to Alexander Forbes. Your grandmother, 2 year old Julia Anna Ni Gartlan is the youngest in the household. The Ni before a last name indicates the person is female.
A copy of the original 1911 shows reveals the Irish script used by the family for all the information in the census return: https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003110145/
Census takers did not fill out the census forms as they do in some countries like the United States. Instead, the head of the household, in this case, Pilip Ua Gartlan, or one of his literate-in-Irish children, would have filled in the information.
My Irish is very rusty as I haven't used it in many years, but it looks like 43 year old Pilip could not read English. His 44 year old wife Caitlin could read and write English. Column 14 of the census form is marked with a dash - opposite Pilip and Caitlin, meaning they could not speak Irish. This indicates one of the Irish speaking children filled in the census form.
The census shows that Pilip's occupation was "farmer," in Irish, and that he was married. No occupation is recorded for his wife Caitlin, but columns 10, 11, and 12 show that Caitlin and her husband had been married for 20 years, and in the time period had 8 children, with 7 of those children still alive. All 7 of the children are in the household, including the youngest, your 2 year old grandmother, Julia Anna.
Her siblings from oldest to youngest are 15 year old Padraig (Patrick); 13 year old Pilip; 11 year old Peadar (Peter); 10 year old Seamus (James); 7 year old Maire Caitlin (Mary Catherine); and 7 year old Michael. It looks like Mary Catherine and Michael were twins.
The census shows that all of the children except Julia Anna were in school. The census also shows that everyone in the household was born in County Monaghan.
At the bottom right of the census form you'll see Pilip's signature in Irish and English, witnesses by Kate Gartland. It would appear that Pilip's wife Caitlin witnessed his signature. One of the children probably wrote their father's name in Irish. To the left of the signatures is the signature of the enumerator, Wm McManus. He was probably the local constable who collected the census from the family.
John, did your mom speak any Irish, and do you have any twins in your family?
Knowing that your mom's mom Julia was 2 years old in 1911, I looked for her birth record at the irishgenealogy.ie website, and found it.
Julia Anne Gartland was born in Cornacarrow on 13 July 1909. Her father Philip is a farmer living in Cornacarrow. Her mother is Catherine Gartland, formerly McGrane. Philip reported the birth to the registrar, and signed the birth register with "his x mark." The registrar, A. Hunter, recorded Julia's birth in the Castleblayney Registration District on 23 July 1909. Julia's birth record is the last one in the register, number 128: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1909/01606/1644681.pdf
Julia's birth record shows that her mother Catherine's maiden name was McGrane. With this information I looked for the marriage record for Philip Gartland and Catherine McGrane. The 1911 census shows they had been married for 20 years, which places their year of marriage in 1891. But, years of marriage in the 1911 census are not always accurate.
I found this to be the case because their marriage record shows they were married on 21 February 1895 in the Catholic Chapel of Donaghmoyne. Both were of "full age," with Philip having been a bachelor and Catherine a spinster before marriage. Philip's occupation was "Farmer." His residence at the time of marriage was Cornacarrow, Civil Parish of Aghnamullen. His father is Philip Gartland, a "Farmer."
Catherine's residence at the time of marriage was Drumlurg, which was in the Civil Parish of Donaghmoyne. Her father is Pat McGrane, a "Farmer."
The priest who married Philip and Catherine was James Meegan, P.P. The initials P.P. stand for Parish Priest. The first name of one of the witnesses to the marriage is John. I couldn't make out his last name because of fading of the handwriting. The second witness is Bessy Boyle.
Philip signed the marriage record with "his x mark," witnessed by the priest, James Meegan. The marriage is the last entry in the register at: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10516/5830368.pdf
A Google Map shows that Drumlurg, by the shortest route, is 3.5 miles southeast of Cornacarrow: https://tinyurl.com/mvmxf2yh
Donaghmoyne is 7.5 miles southeast of Cornacarrow along the road going through Drumlurg, according to a Google Map: https://tinyurl.com/467wctsb
The 1911 census shows that Philip and Catherine had 8 children, with 7 children still living. I next looked for the death record of the child that died, and found the death record at the irishgenealogy.ie website.
Thomas Gartland died in Cornacarrow on 18 May 1910 at the age of 3 years. He was the "son of Farmer." The cause of death was "Bronchitis one month." He did not have a "medical attendant" during his illness. Thomas's father Philip was present at the death and signed the death register with "his x mark." He reported the death to the registrar, A Hunter, who recorded the death in the Castleblayney Registration District on 27 June 1910. Thomas's death record is number 323 in the register: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05430/4518394.pdf
The names and birth order of the 8 children of Philip Gartland and Catherine McGrane between the years 1895 and 1911 are below:
Patrick
Philip
Peter
James
Twins Mary Catherine and Michael
Thomas
Julia
----
I looked for, but didn't find the birth records of any more of Patrick and Catherine's children from 1911 forward.
I now wanted to see if I could locate the Gartland family in the 1901 census. I found them in the census which shows the "Gartlen" family were the "Residents of a house 1 in Cornacarrow (Laragh, Monaghan)."
The 1901 census transcription shows that 30 year old Philip is a farmer who cannot read. His 50 year old widowed mother "Catheren" is in the household with him, along with his 26 year old wife "Catheren Mc Grene," and four of their children, including 4 year old Philip; 2 year old Peter; a child transcribed as "Games," no age given; and 5 year old Patrick.
"Games" refers to James. When no age is given to a child in a National Archives of Ireland census transcription, it usually means the child is under 1 year old.
All in the household are Roman Catholic and all were born in County Monaghan. See the transcription: https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Monaghan/Laragh/Cornacarrow/1628 263/
Once the census downloads, make sure you tick the box, "Show all information" to view the full census. A copy of the original 1901 census can be accessed at: https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001141006/
In the copy of the original census Games's (James's) age is 3 months old.
The 1895 marriage record shows that Philip's father was also named Philip. The 1901 census shows his mother was Catheren. In the 1901 census Philip's age is 30, which places his birth in 1871. In the 1911 census his age is 43, which places his birth in 1868. This shows you can't always trust ages to be accurate in the 1901 and 1011 census enumerations.
I went back to the irishgenenalogy.ie website to look for Philip's birth record. Because I wasn't sure what year he was born, I looked for his birth from the year 1864 to 1872.
I found his birth record. Philip was born in Cornacarrow on 11 January 1865. His father Philip is a "Labourer" residing in Cornacarrow. His mother is Catherine "Gartlan," formerly Corrigan. Philip Sr. signed the birth register with "his x mark," and reported the birth to the registrar, J.W. Young, who recorded the birth in the Castleblayney Registration District on 24 January 1865. Philip's birth is number 399 in the register: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1865/03589/2322862.pdf
Next I looked for Philip’s baptism transcription at the Find My Past (FMP) website. It took a while to uncover Philip’s baptism transcription, as the transcriber for FMP spelled his surname as, “Gackian,” rather than Gartland.
An error in transcription like this is usually a sign that the transcriber had a difficult time reading a copy of the original baptism register because of poor handwriting, poor image quality, fading, or a combination of all three.
The transcription shows that Philip was baptized on 11 January 1865. His father is Philip. His mother is “Catharine,” but the transcription does not give her maiden name.
The baptism took place in the Aughnamullen East Catholic Parish. An alternate name for this parish is Lough Egish. See the FMP transcription at:
https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F2142354&tab=this
A copy of the original baptism record is attached to this reply, and comes from the National Library of Ireland. Once you download the baptism record, you’ll see it is very faded and a challenge to read. Here is my transcription of the baptism record:
11th Philip Gartland Cornacarrow?
Philip & Catharine Corrigan
Mick ? & Mary ? 0 2 2
Certificate to Jas Carroll
C C 2 6
----
Here is my translation of the baptism record:
To the right of the child, Philip Gartland’s name, is the name of the townland where he was born. It looks like it could be Cornacarrow. Below Philip’s name are the names of his parents, Philip, and Catharine Corrigan. Below their names are the names of the sponsors, or godparents. I could only make out their first names, Mick (Michael), and Mary. To the right of the godparents’ names are the numbers 0 2 2. This means that the parents, Philip and Catharine, made a donation of 2 Shillings and 6 Pence to the church for performing the baptism.
Below the names of the godparents is the notation: "Certificate to Jas (James) Carroll," below which are the initials and numbers C C and 2 6. What this means is that a certificate of the baptism was forwarded to James Carroll. The C C indicates that James Carroll was the Catholic Curate for the Aughnamullen East Catholic Parish.
It also appears that Philip and Catharine paid an additional donation of 2 Shillings and 6 Pence for the certificate of baptism.
The object of the next search was to find the marriage record for Philip Gartland and Catherine Corrigan. Before doing this however, I wanted to see how far back in time the Aughnamullen East registers of baptism and marriage are available at the National Library of Ireland.
The National Library of Ireland holds Aughnamullen East registers of baptism from 1857 to 1876, and from 1878 to 1881. A you can see there are gaps in the baptisms.
Marriages are available from 1857 to 1876. Also available are Aughnamullen East Funeral records, from 1857 to 1876.
I suspect that Philip and Catherine were married before 1864, and so looked for the church marriage transcription the FMP website, and found it. They were married in the Aughnamullen East Catholic Parish in November of 1859. No day in November is given. See the transcription at: https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FMAR%2F0472164%2F1&t ab=this
Next I accessed a copy of the original marriage record from the National Library of Ireland. It is very faded and difficult to read. The first name of one of the witnesses is Jas, that is James. The second witness is Mary. Philip and Catherine made a donation of 10 Shillings and 6 Pence to the church. See the attachment.
I also found a second marriage transcription at the FMP website, which only gives Philip Gartland's name, but not his wife's name. The transcription shows a marriage date of 28 November 1861 in the Aughnamullen East Catholic Parish: https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FMAR%2F0472243%2F1&t ab=this
A copy of the original record however, shows this is a certificate of marriage, and not the marriage record itself. See the attachment.
The person recorded before Philip is William Sheridan, whose certificate of marriage was also recorded.
I then looked for, didn’t locate birth or baptism records for any more children of Philip Gartland and Catherine Corrigan.
If Philip Gartland and Catherine Corrigan were born in Cornacarow, Catholic Parish of Aughnamullen East, there won’t be baptism records for them, as the Aughnamullen East baptisms are only available from 1857. They were married in 1859.
But, I found at least one more record pertaining to the Philip Gartland who married Catherine Corrigan. He is recorded in an Irish property tax record called Griffiths Valuation.
Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland from 1847 to 1864. The valuation for Cornacarrow, Civil Parish of Aghnamullen, County Monaghan, was completed by the year 1861.
Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who leased property. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.”
The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman for the owner. This person was called the “Immediate Lessor.”
You can search Griffiths Valuation for free at the askaboutireland website link at: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
Philip Gartland was recorded in Griffiths Valuation leasing property in Cornacarrow. See the attachment. His location on the page is indicated by the green arrow.
He leased a house, offices and land from an Immediate Lessor named George McTear. The land was 6 Acres, 3 Roods, and 0 Perches in size, and valued at 4 Pounds and 10 Shillings. The house and offices were valued at 10 Shillings. The total valuation of his lease for tax purposes was 5 Pounds, which was a great deal of money in Ireland in 1861.
An office in Griffiths Valuation could be a barn, stable, blacksmith shop, piggery, etc.
In the column to the left of Philip Gartland’s name is the number 5. This is a map reference number, showing where his lease was situated on a Griffiths Valuation Map of Cornacarrow. The map is attached to this reply.
Philip’s lease is located at map reference 5 is in the southwest portion of Cornacarrow where you see the green arrow.
Also attached to this reply is an Ordnance Survey Map of Cornacarrow without all the Griffiths Valuation map reference numbers and letters. This map gives a clearer picture of what the townland looked like. The map is from the GeoHive website and covers the time period from 1829 to 1842.
Back to Griffiths Valuation, I now wanted to see if an Alexander Forbes was recorded anywhere in County Monaghan leasing property circa 1861. I found that an Alexander Forbes leased a house, offices, and yard from an Immediate Lessor named James Steele, in Market Square, Town of Castleblayney. See the attachment.
Alexander Forbes is indicated by the green arrow at Map Reference 29 toward the bottom of the page. But again, there is no way of knowing from Griffiths Valuation alone, if this Alexander Forbes was a direct ancestor of your mother, Dympna Margaret Forbes. There is a possibility he was, or he could be in a collateral line.
CONCLUSION
John, as you can see there is a great deal of information online about your Garland/Gartland side of the family, the Forbes side, not so much, at least not what I could locate in free genealogy search applications. There's always the possibility I missed locating any further information about your Forbes line in Ireland.
Have you considered DNA testing to see if you connect with any Forbes in your direct line in Ireland?
Kind Regards,
Dave Boylan
REFERENCES
Patricia’s reply to John dated 9 July 2025
IreAtlas Townland Data Base
Google Maps
Google Street Views
National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland
National Archives of Ireland: 1901 and 1911 census
irishgenealogy.ie
RootsIreland
omniglot.com
Find My Past
National Library of Ireland
Askaboutireland: Griffiths Valuation and Maps
GeoHive: Ordnance Survey Map of Cornacarrow