Miller, Humphries, and Adams Families

Hi Col,

Thank you for the information on Henry Adams. I'm going to see if I can verify this Henry Adams is my relative. I am aware that Baptisms can take place years after birth. 

Unfortunately, I've hit a dead-end with researching most of my family in Ireland, not able to get back further than 1770, especially in Aghnamullen. It seems that most of my ancestors are from County Monaghan in the Aghnamullen - Ballybay area. 

Thank you again,
Alan

 

Hi Alan,

Looking for vitals information on Rosamond Miller, I just now ran across this message board.  I too am a descendant of Joseph (who you call John) Miller and Martha (Humphries) Miller.  My records show an earlier birth date for Joseph (which I think may be wrong), but the same birthdate for his wife.  My g-g-grandfather was their son, James Miller (b. 1798).  I have some baptismal records for his younger siblings (including Rosamond), as well as information on the family's immigration to the U.S. from Co. Monaghan.

We should talk.

GF

 

 

 

 

Hello GF,

First, I must admit a mistake in my original message: Joseph was mistyped as John. Joseph Miller was indeed married to Martha (Humphries) Miller. What birthdate do you have for Joseph? It is possible that the date I have 8 April 1770 could be wrong as well. 

The only documents I have on the Millers is a ship manifest from 1 Dec 1824 sailing from Liverpool to New York with Martha (age 50) listed along with Joseph (18), Rosey(my g-g-g-g-grandmother - 16), Humphrey (12), and William (10). There is also a Geroge (24) listed, not sure if he's related, but probably is an older child. 

I'm interested to know what other information you have on the Millers. 

Alan

 

 

 

 

Hi again, Alan --

It is a relief to know that we have a match on "Joseph" as our mutual ancestor.  I have a birthdate for him of 19 May 1757, which would have made him quite a bit older than his wife, Martha.  I have his death date as 08 Oct 1818.  Please note that these dates came to me as secondary sources, and I have not been able to verify them.

As for original and reliable sources, I have one to share.  Like you, I found the passenger list for the ship Braganza.  In 2014, while traveling in Ireland, my husband and I spent a few days in the Ballybay vicinity and in Belfast.  At the latter, I visited the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland's library and was able to view photocopies of the handwritten baptismal register kept by Rev. James Morell, minister of First Ballybay Presbyterian in the late 1700-early 1800s.  He entered his baptisms of the eight youngest Miller children (the older three's having occurred before Morell started his diary).  The townland written as their home at the time is "Edenanae"  I have not figured out which of two nearby townlands he meant by this, as one is spelled "Edenanay" and is east of Ballybay and another nearby one is west of town and is spelled "Edenanaene."  

I have quite a bit of information on some of the Joseph and Martha's children's lives in America -- but not Rosamond's.  So I would like to learn more from you.  Is it possible for us to email?

Regards,

GF

 

 

 

Hi GF,

There are a few things I've learned in doing genealogy work: 1. The penmanship on the handwritten records, such as a Census or church record, really makes a difference in whether names and/or dates are correct when put into electronic form. If the penmanship is not easy to read, that can really make you guess what the correct name or date is. 2. People did not always know how old there really were back then or what their date of birth was. 3. People got married very young in the 1800s and it wasn't uncommon for the husband to be much older than the wife. Rosey's daughter Martha Jane was 12 years younger than her husband David. 

The information I have on Joseph and Martha are from someone else's family tree in Ancestry.com. I've gone through their documents and did research on my own to try to verify the information.

Also in Ancestry.com was a photo of a grave for a Joseph Miller showing a death date of 11 Oct 1818 and stating he was aged 48 years, 6 months, and 3 days which would make the birthdate 28 Jun 1770 which is only a few months different from the 8 Apr 1770 date the family tee in Ancestry has. 

That's fantastic you were able see the baptismal records from the First Ballybay Presbyterian. I was in Ireland in 1996 and only found my Irish heritage this year. If only I had known this information back then, I would've gone to the churches to seek records. Google maps shows an Edenane about 2 miles SE of Ballybay. 

Martha Jane Adams, the daughter of Rosey (Miller) and Henry Adams married David Johnston Pollock. David's parents John and Mary C. Johnston Pollock were born in Aughnamullen, Co. Monaghan, not far from Ballybay. I was in contact with a church in that area and they told me that Aughnamullen is the Parish and if I had the name of the towland, then they could help narrow down which church may have records. That information I do not know. Everything I've researched only shows Aughnamullen which is about 6 miles southeast of Ballybay. 

Yes, it would be easier to email. I'm trying to figure out how I can send you my email address. 

Alan

 

Hello,

I've been following this conversation with a great deal of interest from over here in Australia. I have a William Miller (b. 1818-1821) who was transported to Tasmania in 1842. His records name his parents as James and Rosannah. Although these records only give Monaghan as his place of origin I know from the newspaper reports of his trial that he was involved with Sam and James Gray which I believe puts him in Ballybay.

I've not found any birth records for him, but I'm wondering if you have come across these three names? GF you mentioned your g-g-grandfather was James Miller (b. 1798).

I hope I've reached you before you disappear into email land.

Thanks

Margaret

Hello Margaret in Australia,

Joseph & Martha Miller had 11 children born in County Monaghan, Ireland  between 1794 and 1811. A set of twins, Thomas and William, were born and died in 1808. They did have another child named William in 1811 (date and place of death unknown).

Joseph died in 1818 in Ireland. In 1824 Martha and her children emigrated to the United States. Martha died in New York in 1828. Rosamond (Rosey), my g-g-g-g grandmother, stayed in New York City while her siblings all moved to Jo Daviess County, Illinois, which is in the northwest corner of Illinois on the border with Dubuque, Iowa, about 150 miles NW of Chicago. Not sure what lured them all out there since the Homestead Act to move people out west wasn't passed until 1862 - unless they stayed in New York until 1862, which would make put their ages in the 50s and 60s. 

I do not have much information on Rosey's siblings as I've been focusing on her branch of the family for now. However, if you're a member of Ancestry.com, you can see a Miller family tree that's posted by "stuebesl" who has a "Nelson/Steube" family tree, which is where I got most of my information on the Millers. This tree does have some Miller children listed that I do not yet have on my tree in MyHeritage.com, such as George (b.1796) and David Grey (b.1815). You can find the tree by searching for Joseph Miller with his dates: b. 1770 in Ireland and adding Martha as the spouse. 

I'm quite eager to see what information GF has on her James Kirtley Miller side of the family. 

Hope some of this information helps you. 

Cheers!
Alan 

 

 

 

Thanks Alan - lots there to ponder. No one leaps out as an obvious candidate, but plenty of room to explore. William's trial record note that he was the sole support of his parents so his father James is not likely to be the one who went to US. I will continue to look but it wouldn't surprise me to find the two families related in some way. I find it really sobering how the families split up over this period - some heading west and others coming east.

Thanks again

Margaret

Hi Margaret,' 

I have read about Sam Gray and his son, James Gray, through my research on my James Miller family of Ballybay.  As Alan previously posted here, our mutual ancestors left Monaghan for America in the early 1820's, and while there were children named "William" they couldn't have been the William Miller you seek.  Knowing your William Miller's parents' names is a plus, and you might be able to get somewhere with the Tithe Applotment books on familysearch.com, especially if you can determine a townland for them.  

I'm sending you these links to sources about your ancestor's part in the Grays' notorious activities and trials:

http://aspiringwriter.ca/?p=165

http://aspiringwriter.ca/?cat=20

http://www.thesilverbowl.com/documents/Breakey_Memoirs/Breakey%20Manuscript%20Index%20DALE-GRIFFITH.htm

The latter link mentions your William Miller on a site called "The Silver Bowl."  It's about the Breakey family, but has much on Ballybay local history.  Also, a book called "At the Ford of Birches" by James H. and Peadar Murnane is great reading on the area and its people, but hard to get ahold of.  It's not online as far as I know, but your public library might be able to do an interlibrary loan for you.  

If you do happen to find a link to other Miller families, possibly ours, please share with us here.  Good luck!

GF (Gretchen)

Hello Gretchen,

Thank you for sharing the information on Margaret's side of the Miller family. Could it be possible that Margaret's Miller line is related to Joseph's line, perhaps a sibling or cousin? Most of our ancestors were named after each other with common names as James, John, William, Joseph, Mary, Elizabeth, etc...

Did you receive the message from Ireland Reaching out with my email address? 

Alan

Hi Gretchen and Alan - thank you both for furthering this conversation.

That William Miller is indeed my ancestor. Like Alan, I was thinking that if there is a relationship between us it might be through a sibling or cousin to your Joseph rather than through Joseph directly. I'm still trying to get my head around the applotment records - there are a couple of "James Miller" and even a "Rose Miller" but at the moment it's still too vague to claim them as part of my family.

The links were terrific, thank you Gretchen. I have also found a mention of the affair in an historical book "Historical Sketches of Monaghan" which is available in full text on the Internet Archive.

https://archive.org/details/historicalsketch00rushrich

Margaret

Hi Margaret and Gretchen, 

In one of my previous posts I mentioned that there were two people I saw on the Joseph & Martha Miller tree in Ancestry.com that I did not have in my tree: George (b.1796) and David Grey (b.1815). The name David Grey (or Gray) may be a clue that Margaret's Millers are indeed related to our Millers. Perhaps Grey/Gray is a family name from Joseph's maternal or paternal side that kept getting passed on? 

We'll have to keep searching for more clues to this mystery. 

Alan

My friend from Ireland sent this link to me from tomorrow's (12 Sept. 2016) Irish Times: 

Tracing your Irish ancestors? These new records might help - Millions of historical birth, marriage and death documents become available online

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/generation-emigration/tracing-…

To Alanjay re your email:  yes, I did receive it from Ireland Reachingout, about 7 days ago.  I immediately sent you an email explaining that we were out of town but that I would put some data together after we returned.  We are home now, and I am working on that, but it will take a few days.  I hope the email I used was correct.  I'll send another now, just to see if you get it.  Maybe check your junk mail box, too?

Gretchen

 

 

 

 

Hello to Margaret and Alan,

I've had a chance now to look more closely at the "Nelson/Stuebe" family tree on Ancestry.com.  I'm afraid that, as with many Ancestry trees, much of the information is unsourced and unreliable.  Once an error get posted on Ancestry it usually proliferates.  The "Nelson/Stuebe" entry for James Miller has only two what I would consider bona fide sources:  James Miller's land purchase and his grave in Log Church Cemetery.  The immigration record is, I believe, another man's, as the date doesn't seem right.  As for other names in the "Nelson/Stuebe" tree, there was no second marriage for James Miller (b. 1798).  He died in 1862 and his widow, Susan (Foyle) Miller (the mother of all his children) didn't die until 1878.  When she passed, she was living among her daughters in Cottage Grove, Minnesota --  where she is buried (near my own parents and brother).  The name "James Kirtley Miller" also seems to have snuck into Ancestry from another individual's records.  Our first-generation family members didn't have middle names -- that came in with the second generation, I believe.

I can see where this genealogist was confused about "David Grey Miller," because he cites the 1850 census for Wappello, Jo Daviess County, IL.  This is where one of the sons of Joseph & Martha (Humphreys) Miller lived.  He had married a woman named Elizabeth Gray.  She had a disabled brother, David, who lived with John and Elizabeth into adulthood.  The story of their inclusion of him in the household and their care of him told in a county history book, "Portrait and Biographicl Album of Jo Daviess County, Illinois" (pp. 446-448), published by Chapman Bros. in 1889 and available online at https://archive.org/stream/cu31924028805402#page/n7/mode/2up  This book has a lot of information on other Irish immigrants from Monaghan to this part of Illinois.  In fact, the Jo Daviess county area where many of them lived was called "Irish Hollow."  They started arriving there well before the Homestead Act no doubt drawn by their community of relatives and fellow Presbyterians from Monaghan.  

Loads of people with the surname "Gray" or "Miller," so it is a complex research.

Alan, your hunch about George Miller is correct -- he was the older brother of James and Rosamond.  I will send you more information on him via email.  

Best regards, Gretchen

Hi Gretchen & Margaret,

Gretchen - I did not receive the email you sent last week. You certainly have done your research on the Miller family. I only found out about the Millers in February 2016, so this is all new to me. I've done the research on my 4x-great grandmother, Rosey Miller, but have not done as much on her siblings as of yet. So thank you for clarifying all of this information on the Miller siblings. 

There are many other trees in Ancestry with our Miller family. Not sure how much correct information is in those trees. There are two different trees: "Hanson" and "Adcock," that both have Joseph Miller born in Scotland. The book, "Portrait and Biographical Album of Jo Daviess County, Illinois," mentions that Jame's father Joseph is of Scottish descent. 

Hanson tree: http://person.ancestry.com/tree/24771962/person/1722513842/facts

Adcock tree: http://person.ancestry.com/tree/38024213/person/19720965384/facts

Here is a link to those other trees.
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pubmembertrees&gss=sfs28_…

It's really amazing to read about John Miller in the book "Portrait and Biographical Album of Jo Daviess County, Illinois," htat he was to become a surveyor and civil engineer then gets into cotton manufacutring. I'm so glad you shared this information as it's nice to know the history of our family. It's especially fascinating to know that Martha Humphrey is of English Huguenot descent and that they were all Presbyterian, which makes me think that the Pollock family that Martha J. Adams (Rosey Miller Adams' daughter) married into was also Presbyterian. Martha married David Johnston Pollock in the Charles Street Presbyterian Church in New York City in 1857, but I wasn't sure if the Pollocks were indeed Presbyterian. 

That also explains how the Grays became part of the family and clears up the confusion of David Gray in the Nelson Stuebe tree. 

I'm still wondering what enticed the Miller siblings to move out to Jo Daviss County from New York City, which is where my family still lives. It's amazing to see how a family from Ballybay, Ireland is scattered around the world. 

Alan

Hi again,

This has been a wonderful discussion, thank you. Now knowing your family which ended up in the US I will keep an eye out for their names as I still try to find where my own William, James and Rosannah might fit in. If anywhere I suspect further back than your Joseph and unfortunately most of the trees seem to start with him.

Alan, it is amazing where the families ended up - I'm finding the same with my Scottish ancestors as well. One brother went one way and the other chose differently. I guess it was cheaper and certainly a lot closer to get across the Atlantic than to come all the way to Australia on the other side of the world.

My best wishes to you all

Margaret