Boylan Meath

Hi Sheila Mary:

Thank you for your post.  Do you have any dates for any of the children for John and Anne?  That is very helpful that they were born in County Meath.  It may have been that they moved from Meath to England and then to Canada, or that John went to England to work and then returned to Ireland. 

 

Any other information that you have would be great.  

All the best,

 

Jane

Thank

Thanks  Jane... I do have dates ...will look them up and forward them...even John's birth  and Anne's as well . I wish

I knew the place in Meath where they lived  ??

Sheila

These are the dates that I have ...

Christopher A. born April 11. 1812 in Meath

Richard A. born  Jan. 1819 in England

John W.  born 1820-21 in Meath

Mary Anne born 1816 in England

Father John W. Boylan 1783   and Mother Anne Martin  1790 

 

Hi Sheila Mary:

Thanks for that further information.

I don't see a John Boylan and Anne Martin with any of the above names.  There is a John Boylan family with a number of children but the mother is Mary Dempsey/Dimsey.  The parish is Ardcath.  

Do you have any other information about John Boylan and/or Anne Martin such as parents' names?  That might help to narrow down the area to research.

Let me know.

 

All the best,

Jane

 

Thanks again Jane, John's father was Richard  Boylan , but  that is all that I know .

I know they  were Catholic and must have had a marriage record  or baptismal records.

Sheila

Dear Sheila Mary:

The first name of Richard is not an overly common first name and it may be a good clue for you with your branch of the Boylan family.  

In looking at the Roots Ireland database, there are 3 baptisms noted for a Richard Boylan in County Meath in the following 3 parishes:

Dunshaughlin

Ardcath

Kells.

The above 3 parishes may be good places to start with to try to narrow down your search.  

For ease of reference, here are the 3 baptisms and the NLI parish register reference:

1. 29 August 1805 Dunshaughlin parish  Richard Boylan son of Michael Boylan and Anne Mulloy

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635132#page/59/mode/1up

2. 9 June 1815, Ardcath parish.  Richard Boylan son of Laurence Boylan and Anne Kelsh

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635052#page/48/mode/1up

3.  28 May 1817, Kells parish.  Richard Boylan son of Richard Boylan and Jane Hall

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635052#page/48/mode/1up

It might be worth looking in the registers on the National Library of Ireland website (links above will take you to the respective parishes).

Let me know if you have any other questions.

All the best,

Jane

this is my family tree also. John w Boylan was my great grandfather..he was the father of christopher boylan born in new ross. Is there any further info on this line?

Sheila Mary,  You will have to take this for what it might be worth. I have no way of telling if I have anything correct.

It is possible that Richard Boylan, John's father, might have been dead by 1823.  He certainly is not holding land in the Ireland Tithes, although these records for Boylan appear to date from 1826 to 1834.  As John has married, according to your own information by 1812, then Richard ( his father) is likely to have been born around 1760 and John around 1790, or earlier.

There are 129 records for Martins in the Tithes of the 1820s and 61 for Boylans.  There are eight parishes where Martins and Boylans appear to co-exist, but very few where they are in the same townlands, and where that happens Given names appear to be irrelevant.  I could not find the birth of a Richard Boylan in Ireland from 1740 to 1770.  However, there were three births of a John Boylan in Meath from 1785 to 1795.  

I will refer to Jane's reference to Dunshaughlin, and will add Rathregan, which is an townland within. However, I will also mention Ratoath, an area 6 kms to the east.  It might be better to add the information :

 BoylanChristopherBallybin BerfordRatoathMeath1828

BoylanChristopherCommons or Alleys FarmRatoathMeath1828

BoylanChristDartogueRatoathMeath1828

BoylanThosFlemingtownRatoathMeath1828

BoylanThosGlemingtownRatoathMeath1828

BoylanJohnGlemingtownRatoathMeath1828

BoylanChrisGlascarnRatoathMeath1828

All appear to be family names ( Thomas perhaps not)

It would appear that Richard Boylan may have married an Elizabeth Phillips (recorded as BOYLAND? ) in Nova Scotia in 1844.  You will have to analyse material for accuracy, as I do not have your background.  Hope something may help you.

 

Sheila M,   Sorry, My mind has not stopped.  Glemingtown is possibly an error. The three entries in Ratoath should be Flemingtown.  Although John Boylan (1828 Glemingtown) cannot be your John Boylan, he could be an uncle or a cousin, perhaps.

Sheila M,                 A Richard Boylan  appears to have been born in North Dublin ( city? or rural) in 1768.  Surprisingly,  John Boylan is also a marriage possibility in North Dublin around 1812, but not in Meath.

 

Sheila M,      Note  :  Final effort  :

Halifax

Scots:  PANS, Vol. 238, Doc. 27, Customs Returns of Immigrants at Halifax, 1823 — 403 Scots

 

Irish:  Acadian Recorder Nov 29—Some Irish and others were probably coming in from Newfoundland. In the Acadian Recorder of this date it is noted that two ships, the schooner St. John's Packet and the schooner Mayflower, bound from Newfoundland to Halifax, with passengers, were wrecked, the first off Newfoundland and the other off Cape Breton. Only three people lost their lives.

 

Elsewhere

Irish:  The Connaught Journal, Galway, 28 August 1823—The Hope, from Belfast, with passengers, &c., for St. John, was lost on Sable Island, on the 2nd June, when the following persons were drowned: John McRannell, parish of Killead, seaman; Eliza Williamson, from Belfast; and Margaret and Jane Moorhead, of Monaghan, passengers. There were 155 passengers on board.

 

From 

https://www.theshipslist.com/ships/Arrivals/novascotia.shtml#1823

Thank you so much for all of the information  re Boylans . I am just getting back to searching and you have provided much resource  material  . Many Boylan names appear in jail records ...hopefully my ancestors were good and honest people !!

Sheila

 

 

A comment above re Christopher Boylan and John W ,being his great grandfather was posted Feb 20 2021

Please give me your name and email and I will reply. Sheila

 

Hello Shelia,

My name is Mike Kiel.  We are no relation but I saw your posting on the IrelandXO Message Board.  I haven't been on the message board in a year.  When I got back on last week I discovered a message from an Irish genealogist who supplied me with a lot of great information relating to my great grandparents (Andrew Harlan of Louth County and Mary Darby of Meath County born 1834).  I need to get back in touch with him to find more on Mary Darby.  The genealogist's name is Dave Boylan.  I don't know if Boylan is a common name in Ireland but, for whatever it's worth I thought I'd pass his name on to you. He is really good and very thorough in his research.  It would be super if he was related to you. I don't know how you would reach him other than asking the message board to connect you.  It's been a year but I'm hoping he's still around to resond to me when I answer him this week.

PS: are there any organizations/groups you are working with in Meath that I might contact in researching my great grandmother Mary Darby or her father, Christopher Darby?  Thanks and good luck.

Mike 

 

Sheila,   Just two quick points.  One, Catholic Irish ancestors may have found themselveds in gaols, from time to time, simply because they were Catholic,  I would not put great emphasis on the fact that they may have been thrown into gaol.  Secondly,  I did observe some activity with the Boylan name in the region of Dublin, where I have spent much time pursuing Meehans over the last ten years.  Two churches come up in records, where Boylans appear to be WITNESSES more often than participants.  You might like to look at Irish Genealogy (irishgenealogy.com) Church records. St Audeon was one Church and St Michael and St John was another.  Both are, I think, on the south side of the River Liffey, within a football kick of the back, if you play a kicking football code

.  You mention weaving was an activity and this may be relevant, as the area referred to was important for docks and Merchants' brokers, such as tailors. etc.

Mike Kiel...thanks for your msg. Yes Dave Boylan  is very helpful and over the years I have been in touch with him. I think it was on GenForm message board.   Good  luck with your search... !

 

 

For  Walton Meath...Thanks again  !  Weaving mills were located across from Ireland in the Liverpool area I think.  If so it makes sense that they would find work there.  However we think that one child was borm in Plymouth ..Richard Augustine  in 1819 and Mary Ann also born in England in 1816  but not sure where ...probably the same place. They did go back to Ireland for the last child was born there in 1821...John W.   Boylan  named after his father,  By this time John Sr. had saved enough money to buy land in Nova Scotia and they left in about 1823-24. The land was purchase from ex soldiers from the British Military who had been given grants after the Battle of Waterloo to settle the colony in Nova Scotia. I do not know how the transaction took place ...possibly in England .

Is your name really Meath  like the county ?

Sheila

 

Sheila Mary,

To answer your question first, my name is not Walton or Meath.  I learnt quickly in my genealogical searches that things happen if you are too open with placements on the Internet.  Walton Meath came from the fact that my purpose on this site was to pursue my Walton family of Meath.  Unlike Boylan, it appears that there are actually very few Waltons in Meath, because the name is actually English.  An obsessive mind has caused me to take up causes I find challenging. And you may not have realised it, but I am neither Irish ( or European ), nor Canadian or American, yet speak only one language - English.

May I point out that I am having a little bit of difficulty getting any real information on the background you have provided. But I now may have to add that I may have a positive, which, on inspection, cannot hold up.  Frustrated by narrow searches, a more general search has produced a Richard Boylan, born in England, living in Halifax in 1871, with a young family, all born in Nova Scotia.  However, NS indexes do not confirm the births of the children named, and no marriage of Richard and Sarah is confirmed.

A positive is available, as Familysearch confirms that the John Boylan died February 28th, 1867.

I will attach another file. You have to accept any information you can believe.

Another matter before I close.  It is possible that the British land grants in Nova Scotia may have been to Negro supporters of the British during the period you refer to.  See end of attachment.

I replied to your post  , Walton  , but lost it somehow !  NEW ROSS was settled only by British soldiers , in 1816.

The Negros were given land after the American Revolution , along the Shelburne coast .A wonderful museum is now there showing their history but it is not related to New Ross.

That Richard Boylan in Halifax is interesting but not in my records as we have a 2nd generation Richard .born in 1819 in  England who came to NS as a boy in 1823-24. I  have his family and it does not match but worth a second look . Mine were all Catholic . I wish I knew where this other Richard ended up .DNA  could tell if we are connected  ??

Sheila Mary,

I'm sorry, but I've been away from home for three days, and I appear not to have received this response.  I have come back only by accident, because my mind has not let go yet.  I've done a fair bit of searching and find it difficult to extend your knowledge.  Some family records in official records are incorrect, but it would appear that the Boylans did arrive about 1823, may have arrived on the ship "Hope", which  ran aground about 300 kms east of Nova Scotia, killing several of the 155 passengers on board.  Your Boylan family does not appear to be recorded in official records available until the late 1840s.  This may be because their region was remote, although many from nearby (coastal areas??) are there.    My disappointment has be lessened by the find the made a few minutes ago.  I have come up with a genealogy that you may want to view, because it gives you details on Richard and all members of the family.  I appear to have had two different sets of records, and have copied one address, before I realised I had had the administrator's name changed.  If you search the site for Boylan ( or search the Internet with John's name and Nova Scotia and Geni.com ), you should return several records.  Here is the address.  You should be able to click on it to open the page. 

 https://www.geni.com/people/Richard-Boylan/6000000052815281821 ;  .       Perhaps not, so copy and paste. 

Sheila Mary,

I will assume you have not had time to read this item.  I have come back to re-read my message, and discovered that the link gives you an error message.  If you look in the menu bar, there is a SEARCH PEOPLE window.  Just type Richard Augustine Boylan in there and you will return the various trees available.

I  have followed up the Plymouth reference and note that 1816 - 1819 suggest that John Boylan might have been signed up during the Napoleonic Wars ( not as an infantryman, although one born in Monaghan almost has identical dates 1783 -1821 ).  But Plymouth was a major naval establishment and weavers might have been in large demand across this period.  It would also appear that Drogheda was the main weaving area in Meath.  From 1780 - 1820, textile weaving was very important, replacing linen, which had been there in earlier times.

 

Sheila Mary,

My apologies. My mind is still pursuing the truth of your request and I am wandering around the records.  I have two matters I would like to bring to your attention.

First is my reference above to John Boylan, mentioned in UK Archives, military records.  A review of this item suggests my assessment was inaccurate/ incorrect. Nevertheless, the information about John Boylan in Plymouth, remais unchallenged.  However, it does produce another problem you may face. It is possible for your John Boylan to have been born in a County other than Meath, to have been working in Meath when Christopher was born in 1812, and to have pursued the history you describe thereafter.   Depending on the particular records one accesses, an entirely different view of BOYLAN is presented.  In the 1821 Census, one gets the impression that BOYLAN is a name found in only Meath and Cavan, as all Boylans recorded are from those two Counties.  Go to IrishGenealogy and BOYLANs are long term residents of Dublin, from the mid-1700s into the 1800s.  You have to realize the records are restricted to several Counties only ( Dublin, Cork etc). Uk military records show Boylans from Londonderry, Leitrim and Monaghan inthe period from 1780 to1820.

The other matter is a little more serious, as I have come across a genealogy that presents a divergent record from that which you have listed.  It states that John's wife was Ann Butterly, born 1790, and gives a death I haven't been able to identify, that of Mary Ann Boylan, born 1816 IN NOVA SCOTIA?, which is where she died in 1876.  This genealogy may be viewed at     https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/L87R-61L/john-w-boylan-1821-1899&…; .   I do not have the knowledge to adjudicate on this matter.  However, I have reviewed the listing and now worry that it is one of the many SITE-generated, false listings that can be found on various genealogical platforms today.  It does give citation records, which appear accurate? and relevant. The DE Adder ( variously Deadder and Deader ) family is mentioned and it would appear that this family actually lived on the two farms around JOHN BOYLAN's property and married into the Boylan family.  It would appear that, by 1861, all members of the family are not only listed separately in the Census, but have land, usually two 100 acre blocks, either along Mill Road, north of New Ross, or in an area slightly south east of New Ross township, beyond present-day Leville and some 4-5 kms south of Lake Lewis. I do have the maps which indicate the size, location and proximity of these properties.  Another confusion comes from the 1861 Census, where, despite all of John's sons having families and land of their own, John is head of a household, individuals of which are not named, but 10 males and 2 females are at the farm. 

 

                        Walton...    Wow !  And Thanks for your interest in helping me. I have all the information on daughter Mary Ann who married John Lyons ...have seen her headstone. Also know about the sons with their own land in New Ross ...The original John W. bought each son his own land on three hill in NewRoss  The youngest James was on the original home stead looking after his father until death and inheriting that land.   Mary Ann was born in England   not N.S.

As for Meath it is on the headstone of one son , Christopher  ...I have seen it and the mother Ann Martin's with her name so she must have been a Martin. In other records in New Ross she is Ann Martin as well.

Another Boylan family were in the area ...came after my g.g,grandfather and no relation ...also married into DeAdders so very confusing. 

I will read all of your references soon but have been  busy ....THank you again ! You are amazing and I appreciate it !

Sheila,  This exchange has become a long one, although not my first with a Canadian.  It looks as though it should be finished.  From the searches I have completed, it looks as though there may be very little real information available for you on official records, as 1823 is a little early and, of course, so many Irish records have been destroyed by the passage of time in between.  Birth, Death and Marriage records suggest that John Boylan may not have been born in Meath, but Ann Martin could easily have been.  It would appear that there was an Ann Martin born somewhere in Meath in both 1790 and 1791, but between 1785 and 1795, there were 56 Ann Martins born in all of Ireland.  I will point out that your reference to Christopher and his coming from Co Meath is a possibly dangerous acceptance of stated fact, as the inclusion of that piece of knowledge comes from a descendant, not necessarily a peer. It may appear logical in the circumstances, as he is the first born, but it also seems logical that John's move to Plymouth might have been before 1814, as the end of the Napoleonic Wars returned thousands of soldiers and considerable poverty back to England in the period 1815 onwards.  The only two John Boylan marriages on record for the period 1805 to 1815 appear to have been in Meath; however, I do accept that there may be weakness in my own findings.

It appears, from the records, that Christopher Boylan, could not have been born in Meath.  This statement can not be definitive. But both Christopher Boylans born between 1805 and 1815 appear to have been born in Dublin, possibly North Dublin.  While there are several Richard Boylans living and marrying in Dublin in the 1740s and 1750s, none approximates the date you have given. It also appears that John Boylan could not have been born in Dublin in the 1780s.   My FINDINGS  for John Boylan born 1783   :         In all of Ireland 1778 – 1788    = 6           Dublin North  =    4           1 in 1783   most  of the rest in the period from 1778-1780 ;   Kildare = 1   = 1786    ;  Wicklow  = 1  = 1783

Your best bet might be the family genealogies listed on the Internet, although they often contain many errors, passed down in anecdotal stories to children.  I have identified you, accidentally,  as a result of pursuing details you have presented, but, as this is intended to be my final report, I see no benefit in offering an alternative contact.  Best of luck in your future efforts and searches.

 

 

Sheila,  Sorry, a quick follow up, before I closed the computer down.  Another thought, not neseesarily helpful,  but a Richard Boylan, wife's name Bridget,  baptised a son, name of CHRISTOPHER BOYLAN of N/R on 25 July 1782 at St Michan's Church, Dublin,  another son Patt, in 1787, and a daughter, Margaret in 1781.   I'm afraid the returns were too numerous to check all, even when modified, as a 10 year period produced over 300 returns.

 

I do appreciate all of your effort and searches Walton. I have been at this for over 20 years. , even going to the Library in Dublin . .Some other Irish ancestors have been uncovered on my mother's side but these Boylans are not to be found.

Thank you so much and good luck with your own discoveries .

Sheila

Sheila,

I'm afraid my mind did not stop.  However, I have chosen to call you back to this access point and not interrupt you privately again, if that is the case.   I think the attached file may solve my problem,   and allow you to make a possible decision about your Boylans and their origin.  Hope all goes well.

Thanks again for the final map    and more history re Boylans in 1821.  It is interesting and shows Richard  which is not a common Irish name . I will keep this and look further .although I am about to believe that I will never find exactly where they originated in Meath.

Your help has been much appreciated .

Sheila

Sheila,   I found a note, while cleaning up my work desk and thought I was olbigated to advise you of the reminder I had made quite a few days ago.   It was simply that my warning about the 1821 Census proved correct.  The information I gave you almost certainly is not relevant to your Boylans.  There is no clear way in which one can tell what percentage of records is actually included.  Here is my suggested proof  :   1 - 10 of 37391    The total number of records in the Census for Meath is the 37391.  It would appear that the popuation of Ireland at the time was 4-5 million.  Today the population of Meath is 195000+.  This might suggest that less than half  the population could be included. The site itself suggests the majority of the returns were destroyed in 1922.  It is therefore possible fory our Richard to have lived elsewhere.  The map from 1855 suggests Boylans were far wider distributed than the 1821 Census.  However, there is one other condition that I have found.  On Rootsireland, a Richard Boylan cannot be found in Meath before about 1800.  Dublin and Monaghan appear to have been origin places.

 

Re your David Croke.   I would like to suggest a POSSIBLE ONLY timeline of his life.  He appears to have been related your Archbishop Croke, as Plummer is often recorded in his name.  The fate of these two brothers is very different.  David was born in/around 1836, Thomas, 1823 or 1824.   The story is that the father, William, dies and the family went to live under the protection of his brother, Thomas, the local priest at Charleville, Cork, from 1827 - 1873.  The mother, Isabella Plummer, was actually a Protestant, and one site suggests the boys were brought up Catholic and the girls remained Irish Church of E with their mother.  However, eventually the mother and the girls were  converted to Catholicism and the girls eventually became very hard-working Nuns, although one continued to look after the mother until her death ( undisclosed clearly) around 1853 or 1854.  In all this story,  David is never mentioned.  Here appears to have entered Victoria, between 1854 and 1860. His mother is now dead  !854 is mentioned as a possible marriage date to Mary Kelly, which is supposed to have occurred at Ballarat.  1854 was the height of the Victorian Gold Rushes.  1861 is the birth of their first child.  In one newspaper report were Mary is in trouble for drunkenness, she indicated that David does not provide fo her EIGHT children, and she is let off.  I assume thatb truth is that, if David entered Victoria as early as 1854, then he may have worked his way to Melbourne/Geelong as a hand on a ship, but he was only 18, and Mary was 28.  If they met at this time, both may have been in dire circumstances and befriended each other for friendship and protection.  The rest developed afterwards. But it is possible that the dates are reasonable accurate and the events have been confused.  David died, as you may know, in 1878, bleeding to death, having received treatment too late to save him.  The injury appears to have resulted from either an accident, or an assault, during a drunken argument, in which Mary is reported to have said that she hit him with her boot.  Eventually no finding is made against Mary, and she lived on until 1901.   Not sure if this is going to help in any way.  The three boys lived on, but a couple died relatively young.  I assume most of this is not directly related to your real existence anyway.

 

Sheila,   A final reference ....  once again.  Haven't found a link to the name David in either Croke or Plummer readings.  But provide the attached pdf for Isabella's background, which you may already have.  Hope you can extend your searches successfully in the future.

Thanks Walton.  I do have much on the Crokes and dates from Ireland and Australia . as well as names. David's wife , Mary Kelly , was from Ireland , Co. Clare . and she was my search target but I am not looking further here. My great grandfather , Thomas  Kelly told his family here in Canada that he was a  "cousin " of Thomas W. Croke but that can't be confirmed as I do not know of his siblings or his father's name '  I have concluded this search for now .

Happy St. Patrick's Day .      Sheila