John Gallagher, 1848

John and Neal were baptized in Swineford (Kilconduff) parish on 4 July 1848.  Attached is a copy of the page where the info is found in the parish register (look on the left hand side, just below where the month of July is mentioned.  John's name is abbreviated as "Jno", which was very common. I can see why someone might have misread the date as 1 July, since it's the first one given for the month, but it seems pretty clear that it says "4th".  I was able to find it  easily, since I already had a list of Gallagher baptisms in Kilconduff which I noted down when I downloaded and reviewed all of the pages from the register for my own research.  My grandfather was a Gallagher who grew up in the neighboring parish of Killedan (Kiltimagh), and some family members were baptized in Swineford.  We're almost certainly at least distantly related, but the Gallagher surname is pretty common in both parishes, so the connection may be way back.

As you can see, your info was correct that Catherine's maiden name was not stated, which is odd for that parish register.  As you can see from the other entries, the mother's maiden name is normally given.  It's possible that Catherine was also born a Gallagher, since the name is so common, but I have a case like that in my family and the priest stated the surname for each parent separately.

You're also right about Spaddagh being named as their townland. That threw me at first, but I think I know roughly where it is.  It's not the townland of Spaddagh which you found (which I think is actually in either Knock or Bekan parish, and not in Claremorris/Kilcolman).  I have in my notes that there is a location called Spaddagh southwest of Swinford, on the way to Bohola, somewhere near Meelick, and I notice that Tullynahoo is about 3 miles from Meelick and 2-3 miles south of Swinford town, so it's in the same area.  I can't tell from my notes right now how I found that Spaddagh, but I'll keep looking. The Irish form of Spaddagh is An Spadach, and it refers to a muddy, clay-like area, so it's the kind of name that could be used in lots of places.  It may be what is often called a "sub-townland" - that is, a local place name that didn't make it into the official townland lists (which weren't comprehensively compiled until the 1800's).  In older records, those sub-townlands were sometimes still used as townland names.

I found the Spaddagh which was in my notes.  Here's a map link showing where it is:  https://mapcarta.com/18977384

And, by the way, if you want to see Tullynahoo, it is searchable on Google Earth.

Thanks Kevin!

Yes, I have that birth record for the twins John and Neal...it was the Spaddagh that was throwing me off....google states that it is in the ED of Loughanboy, civil parish of Annagh, barony of Costello....probably where you mentioned around Knock or Bekan parish. I'm glad to know the Irish meaning of that word, so I will keep it as the birth location for John and Neal. Yes, I considered that the mother Catherine was also a Gallagher, but who really knows? In addition to entries of different surnames for the parents, there are also some entries with only a single surname as well for some births.

Gratefully....your cousin (maybe :)),

Carolyn

Kevin,

One last question that I forgot to ask in my reply....in searching for a marriage of John's brother, Neal, there is only one record from Swinford...it is to a Catherince Durkan 25 Feb 1885. His residence at time of marriage says Esker, Swinford.  My understanding, although it could be incorrect, is that residence townland is typically where they were born as well.

How does this fit into the scheme of them being born in Spaddagh...as you know, I said John's said Tullynahoo in his marriage record. Perhaps Neal moved to Esker prior to marriage?

I suppose that another scenario is that he never married or perhaps died prior to marriage. I have also never found any other siblings of John and Neal.

Your thoughts??

Thanks!

Hi, Carolyn.  Glad the info was helpful.  Actually, Neal being in Esker in 1885 is not necessarily a problem, as I'll explain, and I have some additional info for you, as well.

I realized from the map link which I sent you that I could figure out even more about Spaddagh.  You'll have noticed that it lies just north of the Meelick Round Tower, which is a local site that is about 1,000 years old, and marks where there used to be a monastery.  Triangulating from that map and what is shown on Google Earth, as well as another site which shows the various townlands (the official ones), I figured out that what is shown as Spaddagh on that map is actually in (or consists mostly of) the townland of Killeen, in the civil parish of Meelick.  That's an area where the three Catholic parishes of Swinford, Killedan, and Bohola come together (and is, incidentally, close to where my grandfather grew up).  You can see more about Killeen here:

https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/gallen/meelick/meelick/killeen/

At that page (and the other pages at that site), there are further links to records for the townland from the 1901 and 1911 censuses, as well as Griffith’s Valuation (mid-1800’s), if they’re available.  I checked those links, and look what I found:

(i)  In Griffith's Valuation, a Patrick Gallagher is shown as a tenant in Killeen (there are two Patricks shown, but that could well be the same person holding two different tenancies, which was not uncommon).   There is also a Neal Gallagher shown.  In the 1850's, your John and Neal would have been too young to be holding tenancies, but the Neal Gallagher shown could well be Patrick's father, or a brother of Patrick.  In rural Ireland, it was customary for the first son to be named for the father's father, so your Neal could have been named for that Neal.  It isn't certain, of course, but you may now have gone a generation further back.  You can see the records at this link:

https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNa…

I should add that, while the name Neal is common in some areas, it does not appear to have been very common among Gallaghers in that area at the time, so finding a Neal in the right place then seems significant.

(ii) In the 1901 census, no Patrick Gallagher is shown in Killeen (presumably, he had died), and there's no John or Neal either, but there is a Catherine Gallagher, aged 75, apparently living with a son named James, age 56.  That Catherine may be Patrick's widow, with James being a son of theirs who stayed in Killeen.  Ages given in such records are not always correct (people often did not really know how old they were back then),  but it would put that Catherine at age 22 when John and Neal were born in 1848 (James would have been born a few years before John and Neal, if he was 56 in 1901, but once again his age as given in the census might have been estimated)..

You can see a transcript of the census record at this link:  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=19…

So, you now have two good indications that Killeen is the right place.  Catherine would not have been shown in Griffith's Valuation, by the way.  Just the tenant was shown, so it would usually be the husband (unless the wife had become a widow and taken over the tenancy, because the sons were too young).  By the way, you can see the area on Google Earth really well.  Just search for "Meelick, County Mayo, Ireland" and it will take you right to where you can see the round tower (my grandfather grew up about 3 miles due south of there).

As for Esker, you may have already seen that the Esker townland in Swinford parish is just to the northeast of Swinford town, but as the crow flies it's only about 3 miles east of Killeen/Spaddagh.  After the famine years, and several decades of emigration, there were open tenancies in some areas, so if there was no land for Neal in Killeen, he may have moved to Esker, or the tenancy there may have belonged to his wife's family.  My great-great-grandfather moved from one place in Killedan parish to another sometime during or not too long after the famine years, and it appears that he moved to where his wife's family lived, possibly when they got married.  I checked the records for Esker, and there was only one Gallagher tenant there in the 1850's, but there were several Gallagher families shown there in the 1901 census (Neal was not shown), so Neal may also have moved to live with relatives of his own.

Hope that has been helpful.  I've done dna testing by the way, as have several of my Gallagher relatives in the US and Ireland, so if you have too and want to compare results, let me know.  My results are posted at four genealogical sites.  I went more thoroughly through my notes and it turns out that there were several 2nd-3rd cousins of my grandfather who were shown as living in Spaddagh or Meelick in baptismal or marriage records in the 1840's (some also in Cloongullaun/Cloonagalloon, which is nearby).

Slán go fóill!  {"Bye for now"]

-- Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Yes, let's compare results....my DNA test was done via Ancestry, and I loaded the results to GEDmatch, but have zero idea how that site works. I am sure you can enlighten me!

My public tree on Ancestry is called Toohey Family Tree...that is my marrried surname. Anyhow, before you answered my last email, I went on a search for the twin's mother's surname because the marriage record should be there as Swinford marriage records date from 1808 to 1878. The ONLY one I found for a Patrick Gallagher and a Catherine was a record from Feb 1843 for a Patrick "Gallaher" and a Catherine Mulroy....I think the Gallaher is misspelled....If you look at the record itself, it looks like the place written there is "Culleens"...that sound a whole lot like Killeen. BUT, what really got my interest was that on the Griffith's Valuation record you shared with Patrick and Neal, there are also two Mulroy entries! I also see a Thomas Gallagher on that Griffith's record. Your point about there being a son named Thomas born before the twins might work here...I find it very challenging to find additional siblings prior to the 1864 civil registration records. I might pop him on my Ancestry tree and see if I get any hints.

So, all along, I had my Gallaghers in the civil parish of Kilconduff, yet you think that Meelick is correct? On my tree, I do have a Griffith's val. record for a Patrick G., and it has him in Swineford Town. Before you shared your thoughts, this record gave me some evidence of locale. But I could be wrong about it.
We have a month long trip to Ireland in May...for a variety of reasons...my DNA results show I am 100% Irish....with a total of six counties my ancestors are from....will see relatives in Sligo and Roscommon while there.

Let me know what you think about that marriage record. I am descended from John Gallagher via my father.....I could not locate any children for Neal Gallagher and his wife.
Thanks!

Kevin,

 

My bad....I thought you said the potential son of Catherine was Thomas.....tried that name, then reread you latest message where you said the census record has a James and Catherine....off to try that name!

 

 

Success! But.......same problem as above with the "Gallaher"....a birth record for James Gallaher in Spaddagh to Patrick Gallaher and Catherine Mulroy....do you think this is another misspell or another family altogether? His birth is 6 Jan 1846....

Let me know your thoughts.

Hi again, Carolyn.  Wow, you certainly have the technique down for finding parish records and reading the old handwriting!  I think your latest info has pretty much made things clear.

First off, the surname Gallagher is the same as Gallaher.  In Irish, Gallagher is Ó Gallchobhair (modern Irish spelling Ó Gallchúir), and it means “descendant of the foreign help”, referring to a mercenary warrior brought in from Scotland or elsewhere in Ireland to fight in local wars (known as a gallóglach, or “gallowglass”), although it may also refer to Norse ancestors, since the term “gall” was used for them as well (a DNA study a few years ago showed a significant percentage of Norse ancestry in Mayo and Galway).  The surname Gallagher/Gallaher is often thought of as coming from County Donegal (where there are still many Gallagher’s), but scholars now believe that a separate Gallagher “clan” originated in the Mayo/Galway area.  Although Gallagher and Gallaher are by far the most common anglicized forms of the name, especially in Mayo and Donegal, there are more than 20 other historical spellings (most of them pretty rare these days).  The Gallaher form tends to be found in older records, and the records for the same family in Mayo may go back and forth between the two forms (my great-great-grandfather was listed as a Gallaher, but all of his sons as Gallaghers) . Even those in Ireland today who spell it as Gallagher (which is most of them) tend to pronounce it as an English speaker would pronounce Gallaher (but with the "h" slightly guttural).

Now, as to Killeen, I'm convinced that the info which you found about Patrick and Catherine's marriage and the baptism of James ties everything up nicely.  In Irish, Killeen is Na Coillíní (meaning "the small hazel woods"), and it was sometimes anglicized as Culleens or The Culleens, and in fact the local primary school located today just north of the Meelick Round Tower is called St. Joseph's Culleens, and you can see it on Google Maps if you search under "Meelick Round Tower".  Don't just search for Meelick, because that will take you to another place in Mayo (Meelick in Irish is míleac, referring to a flat stone, so it's the kind of name that was used in various places).  Did you notice, by the way, that a Neal Gallagher was one of the sponsors at James's baptism?  That may be the Neal from the Griffith's Valuation record I gave you, which may mean that he was an uncle to James (and to your John and Neal), or a much older cousin.

I'm confident that you've found the right records for your family (in addition to the other records we discussed), and now you also know Catherine's maiden surname was Mulroy.  In Irish, the surname Mulroy is Ó Maolruaidh, meaning "descendant of the red chief [or "red-haired chief"]", which was also sometimes anglicized as Mulry, Milroy, or even Munroe.  It originated in Mayo and is still fairly common in that area.  My grandmother had some Mulroy relatives as well (both of my mother's parents grew up in the area - my grandmother was from the parish of Killasser, north of Swinford).

By the way, I think the Patrick Gallagher whom you found originally in Swinford town was another person (though probably at least a distant relative).  In the same time period, there was also a Patrick Gallagher living in Killedan who was a first cousin of my great-grandfather, and he even had a wife named Catherine (though her surname was Foy)!

I found your Toohey family tree at Ancestry, but I don't seem to show a dna match to you there.  That isn't surprising, since even 3rd cousins can sometimes show no measurable match, and I'm guessing that we're something more like 4th or 5th cousins.  I'm not entirely trusting of Ancestry results, since Ancestry doesn't show the actual chromosome comparison, allowing one to check things oneself.  GEDMatch does allow that, so I could check things better there if you tell me your kit number (my kit number is T7805560).  I could also compare your results at GEDMatch to those for several of my 2nd and 3rd cousins.  Sometimes, a match will show up with one family member, but not  others, given how much genetic inheritance can vary.

-- Kevin

Kevin,

Thanks for confirming the above. You know so much about Irish place names and meanings...you must be a scholar! That kind of information is quite helpful in genealogy work.

My kit number is BE4562772.  Did you omit a letter from yours (T7805560)? I input your number in the one to many DNA comparison section, but it said that number was not found in the public DNA data base.

So going forward, would that Spaddagh be in Kilconduff or Meelick? I seem to be stuck on which civil parish....it probably doesn't matter a whole lot given that is all Swinford, and you have pointed out the nearness of all of these places.  I think I can just eliminate the name of the civil parish and put Swinford.....I have a tendency to want to be too exact in these records.

I'm off to fix my Ancestry tree....many thanks for all of your help!

Slainte (that's the only Irish I know)

Carolyn

Kevin,

I was going to attach the Griffith's Valuation records from 1856 to Patrick Gallagher, and have a question about them. After the first Patrick, in parentheses, is the name Anthony. After the second one is the name Darby. I assume these are there to distinguish the two Patricks....would these be their father's names? If so, that adds a few more new names to the family puzzle! Is Darby a nickname for another name? BTW, are we to be carrying on this lengthy back and forth on this forum or would they prefer it via personal emails

 

Carolyn

Kevin,

Sorry for all the separate posts, but I found something else that I hope doesn't throw a wrench into all the above....there is also a Griffith's for a Patrick Gallagher in Cuillan...could that be the name of the place where he married Catherine? Instead of Killeen (Culleen)?? On those records, there are a bunch of Gallaghers....Anthony, Michael, John, Bridget, numerous Patricks...have a look.  There are no Mulroys though....

Carolyn

Hi, Carolyn,

I did make a mistake in my GEDMatch kit number - somehow I added an extra zero at the end.  I compared our results, and we are related.  We share a 7.5 cM segment  on chromosome 7.   You share an even longer segment with one of my 2nd cousins, at 13 cM on chromosome 12 (his grandfather and mine were brothers).  You also share some smaller segments with us (below 7 cM).  A 2nd cousin of mine (once removed) also shares a number of smaller segments with you, but another one (also 2nd cousin, once removed) shares no segments with you at all.  As I said, it's the luck of the draw with genetics.  We should show as matches at Ancestry, but as I said I have doubts about their accuracy.

From the chart I have, the matches with my full 2nd cousin and me would likely put us somewhere in the 4th cousin range (maybe once removed), sharing something like a 3rd great-grandparent, though we could be a bit closer or a bit further away.  That means that my great-great-grandfather, Thady Gallagher, might have been a first cousin (maybe even a sibling) of your Patrick Gallagher.  Thady was born around 1820, and the info you have indicates that your Patrick was probably born around then, too.

I think you're probably right about switching to email.  You can email me at kevin45sf@yahoo.com

Cuillaun/Cullane is just east of Swinford town, and I see that there were a lot of Gallagher's there, but I don't really know the answers to your new Griffith's Valuation questions.  If you already had a family history about John and Neal being born as twins, then I think Culleens is definitely the right place.  Otherwise, I don't know what to say.  I think our genetic connection makes Culleens more likely, since it's closer to where my Gallagher branch lived, but all of the Gallagher's in Killedan and Swinford are probably related if one goes back to the 18th century.