Drum Ancestors - surname COUGHTER

Hi Roger,

Thank you so much for all the checking. I deeply appreciate the effort. 

Bill Dalton

Coughter does seem to be an uncommon surname, and isn't even listed in MacLysaght's Surnames of Ireland (which is pretty comprehensive). That being the case, I thought I'd share this bit of info, although it's uncertain how much it will help in your search.

I noticed that there are already records for Patrick Cloughter and his family at the Family Search web site [www.familysearch.org], which you or someone else in the family may have created [Patrick's ID number at FS being LYBQ-2PM], so I searched Patrick's name at FS for the relevant time period in Mayo, and there appear to be a few records for someone who may have been him in the years 1841 and 1842. One is a petty sessions court record, and the others are Poverty Relief Fund records. The actual records are not directly accessible at FS, but may be accessible at other sites or archives,

What was interesting, though, was that two of the records refer to his residence as Cloonnee. There is a townland in Drum parish called Cloonagh (in Irish, Cluanach) which, like many townland names, has been anglicized in various ways over the years, including in the mid-1800's as Clooney. You can see more info about the townland at this link:

https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/carra/drum/breaghwy/cloonagh/

That doesn't mean that is definitely your ancestral Coughter townland, but it certainly indicates that some Coughter's may have been living in Cloonagh during the relevant time period. The historical meaning of cluanach as a place name is apparently not certain, but a cluain is a meadow, and cluanach could mean "meadowy" (the word also has other meanings which wouldn't seem likely for a place name).

In the list of records which the search for Patrick turned up, you'll also see a record for Patrick's son Peter, stating that he died in 1899 in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. I noticed that Peter's death date wasn't shown in the FS record for him, so I thought I would point that out.

Hi Kevin,

Thank you so very much. That's great info, especially it being in the Parish of Drum. Also, Cloonagh is very close, on the map, to both Manulla and Balla, known locations of other ancestral farms of other Coughters. But those two townlands are -- I believe -- in the Parish of Balla. So, you may have deduced a very helpful clue.

Though I have an account on FS and do research on it, I do not maintain a tree on FS. (I maintain my tree on Ancestry.) The entries on an FS tree showing Peter, my great-great-uncle, and his parents Patrick & Catherine (Kilcourse) Coughter were not made by me, though I think the poster(s) possibly used my Ancestry tree entries and its attached source documents for reference.  

There were at least two "Patrick & Catherine Coughter" couples who were born in the first quarter of the 1800's and resided in that area of County Mayo prior to 1850. One is my gggrandparents Patrick & Catherine (Kilcourse) Coughter. Another is Patrick & Catherine (Moran) Coughter, the Balla couple that emigrated to Missouri and are buried there. I have been in communication and sharing with their descendants for some years. (There is possibly a third "Patrick & Catherine Coughter" couple, as I have found an Irish Baptism record online (multiple entries) for a daughter Mary born in Jul 1827. However, the maiden name of Catherine is listed as "Marien" and as "Martin", perhaps transcription errors from the hard to read church record. It is possible that this is actually Catherine (Moran) Coughter.)

In addition to the 1841 citation you discovered, I also have the attached 1844 "Insolvents in Ireland" court record of 19 July 1844, citing the bankruptcy of "Patrick Coughter, of Dranmore, landholder". I believe the word "Dranmore" is a reference to "Lord Oranmore" -- the Browne family that owned Castlemagarret (located less than 20 km south of Balla) as well as much land in Mayo at that time. For some years, I have tried to research online for other historical records that might show more specifics on this parcel of land, but have never made any headway. Your finding and deduction about Cloonagh provides another clue to go on. At this point, I still do not know exactly where it was nor if this 1844 Patrick is my gggrandfather or the man buried out in Missouri. 

Thanks for your efforts and help in my search.

Regards,

Bill Dalton

Virginia Beach, VA USA

Roger,

Ah, so nice to learn that. 

That's my paternal side, the Dalton and the Qualeys who held several plots on the slope of Coumaraglin mountain in Kilgobnet Parish during early to mid-1800's. Does Susan know how we are connected?

Bill

Roger,

OK. I now remember communicating with you and Susan in some years past. Susan is a very close DNA match too, on GEDmatch, along with other known Dalton descendants.

Bill

Happy to help, Bill. Since you and Roger are discussing connections, I should mention that two of my grandparents grew up in Mayo (though I'm from the US), and I have known relatives from most of the parishes immediately to the east and southeast of Drum and Balla.  I also have dna matches in Drum and Balla, though I don't know the actual connections there. My dna results are posted at Ancestry, FTDNA, GEDmatch, and MyHeritage. Good luck with your search!

Slán go fóill!

-- Kevin Jewell

Hi Kevin,

Thanks again for your efforts and help.

I used your deduced potential clue of Cloonagh in Parish of Drum to pursue some possible leads and discoveries. This one is interesting:

https://www.logainm.ie/en/35646

Of the 15 historical citations, most are survey related and probably don't contain tenant names. However, the second and third entries, for years 1698 and 1699, cite "Rent Rolls" of the landowner, Col. Browne -- also known as Lord Oranmore. If you click on the 3rd column entries you can see the citations. 

I have no idea how I might be able to gain access to these rent rolls to see if any Coughter is listed on them. This is long before Patrick Coughter and his 1841 & 1844 troubles but still an intriguing possibility.

You think it's possible the rent rolls are online somewhere or perhaps accessible for viewing in an Irish library? Are you familiar with any such old source documents? Your thoughts would be welcomed. Thanks.

Bill

Since they were the private property of the landowners, rent rolls ended up all over the place after the estates were broken up and sold to the tenants.  Some are probably now lost, but some ended up in public or private libraries or archives in Ireland or the UK.  I haven't heard of any digitized collections, but there may be some

I'm sure that the National Archives of Ireland holds some of them:

https://nationalarchives.ie/collections/genealogy-website/

I believe that the Mayo County Library and some of the museums in Mayo also have some of the Mayo-related rent rolls:

https://www.mayo.ie/library/using-your-library/find-a-branch

https://www.museumsofmayo.com/

The British National Archives at Kew most likely holds some as well, since most landlords withdrew back to the UK once (or even before) the Free State was created (or were there all along):

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Kevin,

Thanks so much for providing the leads to pursue.

Bill