Michael Scully m Ellen Murray 1829 Caherconlish, Limerick

Kathryn,

Your Ancestry tree shows some of their children's births in the RC parish of Ballybricken/Bohermore, not Caherconlish. While the two parishes are adjacent, their baptism records begin at different times....Ballybricken in 1800 and Caherconlish in 1841. The paid site, Roots Ireland, shows the following children for this couple in Ballybricken:

Bridget 1839, Daniel 1842, Catherine 1845, and Ellen 1848. I could not find the baptism records for the other children, nor any marriage record. There are no records in either parish for the children of Scully & McCarthy.

BTW, the birth of Norah was in the RC parish of Hospital/Herbertstown, not the RC parish of Killmallock as the notes on your tree show. Hospital intersects with Ballybricken and Caherconlish....see John Grenham's RC parish maps at johngrenham.com. Possible that this family moved around a bit! Another possibility is that some of the baptism records you have found are for children from another family with the same parent's names. I.e. the record for John from the RC parish of Knockany/Patrickswell might not be one of their children as that parish, while adjacent to Hospital, is a bit too far from Ballybricken and Caherconlish. Do you know Michael's occupation? That might be a clue as to whether or not he would have moved around some in Ireland.

Regards,

Hello Carolyn,

Thank you so much for all of this information and for going to the trouble of searching for me.

The only evidence I have of Caherconlish is the marriage of Michael Scully and Ellen Murray (from his death certificate 1890 Australia). As you say most of the baptisms of the children were in Ballybricken. The place of residence for the baptism of Norah looks like Raleighstown (from Ancestry)? Could this be Rawleystown? (I have deleted Killmallock - thank you.) And just to confuse even further, Norah gave Bruff as her birthplace on her first marriage certificate and Herbertstown on her second. I decided on that baptism of a John in Knockany/Patrickswell because it agrees with the age of John on his father's death certificate and the residence is given as Knockroe, where a John Murray occupies land in Caherconlish, the place of Ellen Murray's marriage. Is that feasible?

Michael was listed as a labourer on the baptism registry entries for 1839, 1845 and 1848, farmer on Bridget's marriage certificate in 1867, and butcher on Norah's marriage certificates in 1880 & 1917, his death certificate in 1890, and daughter Ellen's death cert in 1914.

I am waiting on information from Tailte Eireann on the Griffiths Valuation Cancelled Books for Ballybricken North, Caherelly for Michael Scully and also John Murray, Ballynoe, Ballingarry for Michael Scully (Ballingarry is listed as his birthplace on his death certificate), and Knockroe, Caherconlish for John Marray in the hope that they might yield further information.

Regards

Kathryn

Hi Kathryn,

Something to keep in mind when you are looking at marriage/death records of folks who have emigrated...I found this issue with my own family....for their place of origin in Ireland, or their parent's place for that matter; they sometimes give the town land name, a civil parish name or if Catholic, the name of the RC parish. I have also seen that they will give the largest town land near to where they were baptised, not the exact place. This can make research confusing if you are not clear on the civil parishes in relation to the RC parishes and their names. Again, if you have not seen them, John Grenham has great county maps that overlay the civil parish and the RC parish. (Go to browse, maps on left side, then select RC & civil overlaid).

So here goes with my take on your Scully's origins....the RC parish of Caherconlish has the same name as the civil parish - Caherconlish. The town land of Ballybricken is in this parish. The Caherelly civil parish is called Ballybricken/Bohermore RC parish. As mentioned before, these two parishes are adjacent to each other. The town land of Knockroe is in the Caherconlish parish (RC and civil). If I had to guess, I think this area is where your Scullys came from initially, but perhaps Michael's occupation took them to the RC parish of Hospital where Hanora (Norah) was born, and yes, Raleighstown is just a variant spelling of Rawleystown. I don't think the Griffith's Valuation records for a Michael Scully in Ballynoe, Ballingarry civil parish that are on your tree are for YOUR Michael. That parish is much too far southwest of Caherconlish. I believe it is another man with the same name.

Additionally, given your Michael's stated occupation of laborer and eventually a butcher leads me to believe that he was not a leaseholder/tenant at all. So using the Griffith's records is not useful in this case. He could have been a laborer on a farm, but he did not lease it himself. Also, tenancies usually tied people to the land during the mid 19th century, so they did not move around much. Given that he emigrated to Australia after his three daughters did also supports that he was not a tenant farmer. The RC parish of Bruff is one parish over from the RC parish of Hospital/Herberstown....Knockany/Patrick's Well parish separates them. No one could know why Norah put down two different parishes...but the records show Hospital/Herbertstown as her baptism place.

I hope my comments are helpful.

Good Luck,

Thank you once again Carolyn for your detailed and sound summary! It's given me a good feel for the area and I hope I have adjusted everything on my tree.

I love John Grenham's overlay map and now use it all the time for Irish research. Thank you!

It's not long until we arrive in Co Limerick and I look forward to seeing some of the places mentioned on the certificates.

Thank you once again!

Kind regards

Kathryn