Griffiths Valuations explanation.

Hi Kerri,

the appending of a nickname or pet name in this fashion is generally done to distinguish one particular family in a close-knit community from another where several of the same surname occur. For example the Red suggests that, that particular family of Berkery was red haired thus distinguishing them from the black haired Berkerys. Whereas the example with Brien may be that the father or grandfathers name was Brien. A case in point is the name Coughlan in the townland of Esker near where where I live in East Galway. There were several families of the name, so they were distinguished each from the other as; the Coughlans of the Hollow, Coughlans of the Big Street, Coughlans of the Bog, Jack Soot, the Storm Coughlan, The Boy Coughlan, the Soldier Coughlan etc. The names then go on to represent the particular line so that later generations would be known as the 'Boy Coughlans or the Soldier Coughlans' and so on. I hope that this makes some sense to you. It is also worth looking at how names in the Gaeltacht regions in Ireland are formulated. The use a somewhat similar formula.

Regards,

Christy C. 

Hi Christy,

Thank you SO much for that detailed explanation.  You may have now given me a clue to another branch of my Irish ancestors as well!

I have an ancestor named Ryan who was transported to NSW.  On his daughter's Death Certificate, under the section which required her father's name, the family wrote "Unknown" and then "Shine".  I have always wondered if this was a nickname, and an Irish researcher suggested to me some time ago that it may have been a name used to identify this particular Ryan from others in the same area of Ireland.

It seems that what I thought may have been a quaint Irish eccentricity might be more important than that if a family retained the use of the identification even when on the other side of the world and when there was no need to identify themselves with so few others with the same name in the area.  And to use these notations on official documents certainly gives them more importance than I had previously done. I shall now go back and look further to see if I can find any other "Shine Ryans".

With so few Berkery's around in the period I am researching, it seems that this could be a useful tool when trying to identify who belongs to which familywhen they appear in clusters.

Thanks again Christy,  and I had a good laugh at some of those Coughlin's....... Jack Soot !!!  Coughlin's of the Bog !!!!!!  Such a practical solution to being able to identify people of the same name............hysterically funny!

Kind regards Christy and thanks again,

Kerri

There are certainly Ryan (Shone) as a nick name . The Ryan (Shone) clan are thought to have come from Castleconnell in Limerick ? 

Thank you, Scottimike.  I most certainly believe that this family of "Ryan Shone" is the family of my ancestor.  The identifier of "Shine" was written on the death record of the daughter of a convict to NSW.  Mary Ryan was the daughter of Patrick Ryan, a convict.  When Mary herself died and information was required as to her father, as with many convicts that information was not often given by them.  The person filling out the death record of Mary Ryan was a grandnchild so time, distance, newly acquired accents etc mayt well account for any mis-spelling, misproununctian or even misunderstanding.  In the section which requires Mary's father's details the grandchild has written "Unknown ...Shine". Patrick (to whom this descriptor refers) had been transported for manslaughter as a result of his having hit another fellow with a spade during a scuffle over turbary rights in a littlel place just near Newport.  The family of Ryans of which he was a part, had worked that spot over time and took exception to others interloping. The fellow who died a few days later, as a result of the scuffle was named Patrick Green (I have reason to believe - from anecdotal evidence) that he may have actually been related by marriage to the Ryans!  Timothy Ryan and Dennis Ryan are names which also appear in reports of the incident. I would be vey grateful to hear from anyone who has a connection the "Ryans Shones" from around that time ..... 1820's or so?  Castleconnell is referenced on a several records involving Patrick himself so I believe we are in the ball park! Patrick had 6 children at the time of transportation....  the Government arranged for them to join their father in NSW a decade later following the death of their mother, so being the children of convicts they no doubt did not speak much of theri origins either.  But somehow, at some point, the name "Shine" or "Shone" has been mentioned within the family and an attentive grandchild has picked up on it!  I would be grateful for any information about this family of "Ryan - Shone".  Thank you again.