Ireland XO
Back to Message Board

Frances (Fanny) Stuart married Edward De Courcy 1854 Kiltoghart, Leitrim

Leitrim

I am looking for information on my Irish heritage.

My 3rd Great Grandparents (Fanny Stuart and Edward De Courcy) were married in Ireland and had 4 children before emigrating to Brooklyn, New York in 1863 (ship out of Liverpool):
Olivia b. 1856 (2nd G-grandma)
Grisella b. 1858
William Stewart b. 1860
Henrietta b. 1862

Is there anything in their names or marriage location which would provide some background information? I don't even know what religion they practiced.

I have been trying to determine where they lived in Ireland. The only Irish records I could find is for the marriage in Ancestry's 'Ireland Select Marriages' 1619-1898. Even this entry is aguessthat the marriage reflects my ancestors since:
The date is 2 years before my best estimate of their first child's birth and the children have the fathers' names.

Does anyone have thoughts on whether Kiltoghart was the location of their home? Where can I get more information? Where would they record the birth of their children.

Olivia married a Kingsland (also of Irish heritage - but myKingland ancestors moved to the U.S. in the 1600s). Oliviahas made my search a bit difficult. Sometimes her name in the census was recorded as Ophelia. As she got older, she gave herself a younger birthdate and she claimed she was born in the U.S. on some documents. She was quite a character. I wonder what her parents were like.

alana.feldman@…

14 replies

Alana:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I located a transcription of the church marriage record on the subscription site Roots Ireland and the marriage was held in the Drumshanbo Church of Ireland church. Drumshanbo is the largest town in Kiltoghert civil parish. Unfortunately, baptismal records for that parish are not available until 1885 and civil registration for births did not start until 1864 so there would be no record for any of the children. There is a civil record for the marriage which would show the names of the fathers of the bride and groom. www.irishgenealogy.ie is a free site which has images of civil marriage records but right now images are only available from 1870-1941. GRO is working to add the earlier marriages but we don't have a date.

You will note that Edward was from the town of Drumshanbo and Frances was from Mahanagh townland which was mistranscribed as Makanagh. 

Date of Marriage:05-Jan-1854
Parish / District:DRUMSHANBO CHURCH OF IRELAND
County:Co. Leitrim
Husband  EdwardDecourcy  Address Drumshanbo
Wife FrancesStuartAddress: Makanagh

I also looked at the 1857 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Kiltoghert civil parish and there were no de Courcy records but I did see an Edward Stewart in Mahanagh townland and possibly he was the father of Frances.

https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/leitrim/kiltoghert.htm

Let me know if you have any questions.

Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you for the help.  This gives me an area to search in.  I think we are looking at the same marriage.  I would be more comfortable with identifying this couple as my ancestors. if I could find something in Ireland that ties them to the kids or to a trip to Liverpool for their embarkation. Edward De Courcy worked as a store clerk in New York and later had a Milliner store.

On Ancestry I found these family members listed in the detail of the Civil Marriages.  Unfortunately there is no image. This looks like the bride and groom and their fathers:

Household Members
Frances Stuart
Edward Stuart
Edward Decourey
William Decourey

 

There is a seperate record in Ancestry from the Civil Registration of Marriages. It lists different Household members.  Other than the bride and groom, the last names are not from either family:

Volume 3
Page number 285
FHL Film Number 101245

William Finly
James Talbot
Frances Doyle
Mary Anne Peyton
Frances Stuart
George Clifford
Bridget Coan
Edward Decourey

My husband and I have been talking about traveling to Ireland.  I've been delaying until I could find an area tied to my more recent ancestors. I have ancestors (Kingsland) who were Norman invaders of Ireland and emigrated to North America (New Jersey) in the 1600s.  Their Irish ties are tenuous.

Alana

 

alana.feldman@…

The term Norman invaders of Ireland is interesting. The first Normans were actually invited into Ireland by Dermot MacMurragh, the ousted King of Leinster who had sought their help in regaining his kingdom (which he had lost in fights with other “lesser kings” in Ireland). A bit of a tactical mistake since obviously the Normans later decided to hand the territory they had recovered for him to King Henry II of England. But it probably wasn’t really an offensive invasion in the conventional sense. They were invited in. The support given to Dermot MacMurragh by the Anglo-Normans also had the Pope’s backing. Irish history is not always clear cut.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Alana:

That separate record you located is not representing a family household. Marriages were recorded on a page with usually one to five marriages on the page. What you located was an index record which shows the names of all the brides and grooms on the page. So for example, William Finly married either Frances Doyle, Mary Anne Peyton or Bridget Coan. The first record you located confirms that Edward Stuart was the father of Frances and William Decourey (sp) was the father of Edward.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Roger,

Thank you for the clarification.  I was guessing that those were multiple weddings, but I wasn't sure.  

Now I have the father's names.  I need to find the mother's names.

For my future visit to Ireland, do you have any recommendations on where I should visit  in Ireland for researching my Stuart/De Courcy Irish heritage? 

I am very curious about the De Courcy heritage.  I read that De Courcy’s were mostly in Northern Ireland.  Therefore I expected that Edward De Courcy might be Catholic.   Since Fanny and Edward were married in the Church of Ireland, I now assume he was Protestant. It appears that De Courcy’s were rare in Leitrim, but Stuart’s were not.  This leads me to believe that I have found my ancestors.  

I wonder why Edward De Courcy was in Leitrim. They lived as a couple in Ireland for nine years, and had four children, before emigrating to New York. Edward was a store clerk in New York, then he had a Milliner’s store, before moving to San Francisco. Fanny was in millinery too. Olivia, their daughter, left Ireland with them at age 7. I wonder how much of her Irish heritage she brought with her.  I know she tried to hide it – but that is not unexpected for the times. Olivia was very unusual.  She was an artist, a poet, a writer, and taught art.  She was involved in the women’s political activism of the time.  She died of a heart attack giving a lecture in Santa Cruz, CA.  (Her husband died at age 37 and she supported her four chldren. )

alana.feldman@…

Alana:

I looked at the Griffiths Valuation head of hosuehold data from the mid-19th century and there were very few de Courcy names listed and they were not in Northern Ireland. Mainly in Cork and Kerry but small numbers. However, when I searched Roots Ireland, I located the record below which is likely his baptismal record. Got to go now. I will be back later.

Roger

Name:Edward De CourcyDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:30-Sep-1829Address:StrokestownParish/District:BUMLIN CHURCH OF IRELANDGender:MaleCountyCo. Roscommon
Denomination:Church Of Ireland
Father:William De CourcyMother:Susan Not Recorded

 

 

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Alana:

I went back to Roots Ireland to see if Edward had siblings and one record came up for an Olivia (see below)so that name continued on.

I did not find a marriage record for William de Courcy anywhere in Ireland. The Bumlin Church of Ireland records go back to 1811. 

When you come to Ireland, you should visit Strokestown Park house and the Famine Museum http://www.strokestownpark.ie/

Roger

Name:Olivia De CourcyDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:09-Nov-1831Address:StrokestownParish/District:BUMLIN CHURCH OF IRELANDGender:FemaleCountyCo. Roscommon
Denomination:Church Of Ireland
Father:William De CourcyMother:Susan Not RecordedOccupation:Not Recorded

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Happy St. Patrick's Day - at least it is still daytime for me. Thank you so much for all this information.  I feel much more comfortable calling these folks my ancestors.  Susan, William, Edward and Olivia are family names that were passed down.  Other names I have seen in the descendants are Henrietta and Grisella (frequently mis-transcribed as Priscilla). To complete the record; Fanny and Edward's children born in the U.S. were named as follows:

Edward Stewart b. 1865 d. 1918

Charles George b. 1868 d. 1929

Susan Isabelle b. 1869 d.1939

Violet b. 1874 d. 1874

Lavinia b. 1877 d. 1878

I haven't found out how they made it to San Francisco - It was in 1873 or 1874. They could have traveled by transcontinental railroad or by ship. Wagon trains had faded out.  I haven't found a transportation record yet.

I am so happy to have some locations to focus on when I go to Ireland -- beyond the traditional tourist areas.

 

-Alana.

alana.feldman@…

Alana:

Happy St. Patrick's Day! I live in Maryland. It is still the 17th here.

Let us know if you finalize your plans to visit Ireland.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Roger,

That is too funny.  I'm a California girl and I go to Maryland at least twice a year. My husband is from Maryland. You can reach me directly at alana.feldman@comcast.net .

alana.feldman@…

I am very excited to stumble across this thread. I, too, am tracing the elusive de Courcy family. My g-g-grandmother was Margaret Anna Morton. Her sister Susannah Morton married a James de Courcy and for the life of me I can't find him; only a William de Courcy who also seems to have married a Susan. After glancing over this thread, I see that Alana has Susannah Morton marrying William de Courcy ... and I begin to think she is right. I am attaching the record that may have led me astray. Either William de Courcy was a James William (or William James!), or James de Courcy is a typographical error of some kind. The petitioners in this action are definitely the Morton sisters and their husbands.

Hello, cousin Alana. :)

DianeFarr

You probably have found this record by now, since this thread was started so long ago, but Susanna Morton and William de Courcy married in 1828.

William de Courcy was very active in the church (St. John's COI in Strokestown -- now a family history center) and was elected by the parishioners to serve as Church Warden in 1831. That church was very important in our family. My grandfather was baptized there and his two year-old sister is buried in the churchyard, as is their grandmother -- Susanna's sister -- Margaret Anna Morton McManus.

I'm wondering how their son Edward ended up in Drumshanbo, which is quite a distance from Strokestown.

DianeFarr

Edward De Courcy's connection to Leitrim may have been through his grandmother, Anne Moreton, whose father was Johnston Moreton, a "man of property" in Leitrim. He gave her a considerable dowry to enable her to marry a "gentleman" (Lewis Hawkes Morton, Esq.) even though she was born on the wrong side of the blanket. It's possible that this dowry included land. Drumshanbo is very near Liscarbin, where Johnston Moreton died. Liscarbin/Liscarban still shows up on Google maps but appears to be the name of a house rather than a townland, since there doesn't seem to be anything near it. This would be consistent with what little I know about Johnston Moreton. He seems to have been a wealthy man, appointed Justice of the Peace by Lord Chancellor so-and-so in 1776, and among a delegation of freeholders appointed to attend some sort of national convention in 1784 ... just generally a prominent citizen in the neighborhood.

DianeFarr

Reply

Reply
One image file up to 2 MB.