Moore of Newtown, Thomastown, Kilkenny

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out and apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

I am not sure that I can really provide any further information to you as I would do exactly as you have done above - ie search for potential Moor/Moore records in Thomastown and see what fits. You may have to continue this type of information gathering exercise in the hope that at some point in the future additional records will become available. There is a John too mentioned on the Griffith's Valuation and by your reckoning above, potentially Ellen's father:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNam…

I feel you are certainly on the right track and working on this in a very practical manner.

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

Thanks for the encouragement Clare. I have study this puzzle so many ways, gathering a few facts from records and American newspapers.

What newspapers were circulated around Thomastown circa 1845? Would the names of my family members been in the news for accidental deaths, obituaries or emigrating? Or is this just an eager excercise in futility?

I checked the Kilkenny library holdings for "local studies" and wonder if there are newspapers or other material there. It doesn't seem like Rothe House Museum would have more than Roots Ireland has on-line. 

Someday I would like to visit even if I never find proof of my theories. Posting the information here might help unknown cousins with the deadends they encounter.

Crossing my fingers for a clue!

Thanks for the encouragement Clare. I have studied this puzzle so many ways, gathering a few facts from records and American newspapers.

What newspapers were circulated around Thomastown circa 1845? Would the names of my family members been in the news for marriages, accidental deaths, obituaries or emigrating? Or is this just wishful thinking?

I checked the Kilkenny library holdings for "local studies" and wonder if there are newspapers or other material there. It doesn't seem like Rothe House Museum would have more than Roots Ireland has on-line. 

Someday I would like to visit even if I never find proof of my theories. Posting the information here might help unknown cousins with the deadends they encounter.

Crossing my fingers for a clue!

Hi again

My first thought in reply to your message was to have a look at the Library Website as they usually have a comprehensive listing of local papers (those out of circulation especially). It might be the case that a family was listed on an obit for example. I recently found one for an ancestor that listed all of those at the funeral and their relationship to the deceased from immediate family to cousins. A long shot but you never know.

Best wishes

Clare 

Genealogy Support 

Hi Clare,

I am happy to report your advice led me to find several useful newspaper clippings listing different relative's names who attended family funerals. These are from Beardstown, Illinois suggesting Cody relatives were:

cousin to Cody: Thomas Tobin http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=88995582 (his brothers: Garrett Tobin and Mike Tobin)

aunt to Cody: Eliza (English) Tobin, she married Michael Tobin in 1853 Sangamon, Illinois

I also acquired copies of the probate papers for Walter Cody and Andrew English. Walter was the executor of Andrew's estate which was quite complex as they ran a grocery store together and had extensive creditors, debtors, and inventory. The probate court called Walter brother-in-law to Andrew. Several people claimed to be heirs of Andrew including: 

Thomas English (Andrew's father or brother? Claim presented by attorney with illegible name)

Michael & Eliza (English) Tobin

William & Margaret Ferver

Martin & Ann (English) Cosgriff, of Jacksonville

Patrick & Catherine Donohue or Donahon, neighbor of the Cosgriff family on census pages

Finally, I also analyzed the names of the sponsors on the baptismal records: Murphy, Walsh and Phelan were listed but are common surnames in Thomastown. I read that Cody was more common in Kilkenny than any other county.

I am beginning to believe all these friends, neighbors and relatives came from the same place in Ireland, in and around Thomastown, then emigrated together to Beardstown, Illinois. These two places are geographically similar, small towns on the banks of a river. 

Even if I never find more proof, I am pleased to be planning a visit to Kilkenny this spring -- not for more research but to see the places my ancestors left. I have a list of places they lived, worked, and worshipped. Do you think it would be possible to find a local guide with an interest in history and genealogy?

Thanks for your encouragement,

~Betsy

Hi Clare,

I am happy to report your advice led me to find several useful newspaper clippings listing different relative's names who attended family funerals. These are from Beardstown, Illinois suggesting Cody relatives were:

cousin to Cody: Thomas Tobin http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=88995582 (his brothers: Garrett Tobin and Mike Tobin)

aunt to Cody: Eliza (English) Tobin, she married Michael Tobin in 1853 Sangamon, Illinois

I also acquired copies of the probate papers for Walter Cody and Andrew English. Walter was the executor of Andrew's estate which was quite complex as they ran a grocery store together and had extensive creditors, debtors, and inventory. The probate court called Walter brother-in-law to Andrew. Several people claimed to be heirs of Andrew including: 

Thomas English (Andrew's father or brother? Claim presented by attorney with illegible name)

Michael & Eliza (English) Tobin

William & Margaret Ferver

Martin & Ann (English) Cosgriff, of Jacksonville

Patrick & Catherine Donohue or Donahon, neighbor of the Cosgriff family on census pages

Finally, I also analyzed the names of the sponsors on the baptismal records: Murphy, Walsh and Phelan were listed but are common surnames in Thomastown. I read that Cody was more common in Kilkenny than any other county. But I find that Moore is less common and the John Moore I believe is Ellen's father was shown on the attached map.

I am beginning to believe all these friends, neighbors and relatives came from the same place in Ireland, in and around Thomastown, then emigrated together to Beardstown, Illinois. These two places are geographically similar, small towns on the banks of a river. 

Even if I never find more proof, I am pleased to be planning a visit to Kilkenny this spring -- not for more research but to see the places my ancestors left. I have a list of places they lived, worked, and worshipped. Do you think it would be possible to find a local guide with an interest in history and genealogy?

Thanks for your encouragement,

~Betsy

Griffith's Valuation for Ireland (Kilkenny 1849-50): John Moore Newtown/Thomastown/Kilkenny lists his landlord as Earl of Carrick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Carrick_(Ireland) → Butler)

1853 Tithe: Newtown/Ossory Diocese/Thomastown Parish/Kilkenny County: John Moore same page as Cody and names from sponsorships [have image & map]

very useful to retrieve page and map location: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

John Moore was on a page near modern day Thomastown Library, same page as Patrick Cody on The Mall (7d) and (16 A B) plus John Cody (41) on The Belfry. Must trace Patrick Cody as that's the best fit for Walter's father since Walter & Ellen's eldest son was named Patrick.

 

More on nearby Patrick Cody: LIKELY [see image clipping]

bap: 11 Mar 1793 Boughleagh a narring P[arish] [maybe Bollacoundhawin, the Irish version of town's name], of Thomastown, March ?? bapt Patrick Cody, the infant of Garret? [quite illeg but looks right] Cody and Mary Cody his wife, sponsors Lawrence Frany, Richard Lynch, Mary Dugan

 

I added all the above detail because this is the theory I really believe now but might never prove.

Richard Cody & Ellen Moore of Newtown m: 22 Nov 1844 Newtown/Thomastown/Kilkenny no parents names recorded [since this is a Newtown record, it's possibly the same Ellen as the siblings in the Missing Friends Adverts, and she would have been 22 years old]. The potato famine began the next year in 1845.

witnesses: James Aylward and Mary Murphy

This would fit if Ellen Moore married Richard Cody who died and then she married an English and then Walter Cody in Beardstown … it's a stretch … but the name Walter Cody is quite rare and only appears in Co. Kilkenny for even close to his right age, not in Cork where records albeit are sketchy … Plus, the likely name of Walter's mother was Mary as she appears on 1860 census in Beardstown which matches the following family even though a very common name. 

Garret Cody & Mary Hickey of Kilfane m: 24 Feb 1805 Thomastown, witnesses: William Ryan and Mary Hickey plus Andrew Barney

Children of this couple:

Walter Cody b: 12 Jun 1807 bap: 13 Jun 1807 chapel Kilfane/Thomastown/of Stoneneen/Kilkenny

     f: Garret Cody m: Mary Heaky sponsors: John Byrne and Bridget Murphy

[“our Walter” headstone says 1815-1866, younger than this guy, but stone might be wrong and added well after his death]

Richard Cody bap: 13 Jan 1813 Thomastown/of C Screg/Kilkenny

     f: Garret Cody m: Mary Hickey sponsors Thomas Deloughery and Mary Ryan

Anastatia “Anty” Cody bap: 26 Feb 1815 Thomastown/Kilkenny

     f: Garret Cody m: Mary Hickey sponsors: James Byrne and Margaret Murphy

Summary of Garret Cody & Mary Hickey kids: 

Walter bap: 1807 of Stoneen

Richard bap: 1813 of C[logh]screg [NOTE: Walter & Ellen Cody's second son was called Richard Thomas Cody]

Anastatia bap: 1815 [NOTE: Walter & Ellen Cody's second daughter was called Anastatia on Walter's will]

Michael bap: 1817 of Stoneen must have died

Michael bap: 1820 of Stoneen

 

Griffith's Valuation: Garrett Cody Kilkieran/Inistioge/Kilkenny

1829 Tithe Fiddown/Inistioge (30km to Newtown): Garret Cody, line above was John Tobin, same page as Patrick Cody and Edmond Cody

 

Garret Cody bap: 4 Aug 1782 St Canice's/Kilkenny [have image] MAYBE

     f: Patrick Cody m: Bridget Dwyer sponsors: Thomas Kealy and Mary Britt

 

Kilfane Glen and Waterfall is address: Stoneneen, Thomastown, Co. Kilkenny http://www.kilfane.com

There are 24 Cody names on the Thomastown Griffith's, including two on same page as Ellen's likely father John Moore. Richard in Cloghabrody on Chapel lane north of Thomastown (41 A&B plus 45 12) and in Thomastown on Logan Street (1 15), but also in Inistioge at Kilkieran

Because there are so many Cody households, I have no conclusions, just hunches and theories. 

Thanks to those who follow all of the above and care to comment,

~Betsy

Hi Betsy:

 

Thanks for all the additions to this thread and you are definitely onto something. 

I do not know of anyone offhand in the Thomastown area, but I will make enquiries on your behalf to see if someone might be availble to show you around and to look at what you have done.

 

Thanks again for the information.  The Boston Pilot Missing Friends can also be accessed through Boston College (if you google the Boston Pilot).  That is a great resource for local information.  Your obtaining more information from the Probate records is really fantastic too!

Another resource that you might consider is that of Historic Graves which is a community based project that digitises graveyards, recording and transcribing the headstones.  County Kilkenny has a lot of graveyards on this site and in particular there appear to be at least from Thomastown.  It is definitely worth a  look.  Their website is:;  www.historicgraves.com. ; You can use the Search Map tab to look at what's available in the County Kilkenny area.

Please keep us posted as to your progress.  You might also consider writing something up about the family for the XO Chronicles for the Thomastown page.

Your theory about the neighbours having all emigrated from one place to another is very true, and was done in a number of communities all over Ireland. 

All the best,

Jane.

Dear Jane,

Thanks for the reply and tips. I have used the Boston College database of missing friends ads which helped me find all the possible Moore and Cody notices. I wonder where to find an image of the actual newspaper because I am curious how they determined [Kilkenny] in square brackets as the transcription shows (see attached). There are other Thomastowns but I believe the one in Kilkenny is correct even though I don't know who determined the text in the square brackets.

Sadly, there was nothing at historicgraves.com for me. But this was useful: 

http://www.thomastownparish.ie/ourparish/memorials-of-the-dead/in-memory/

Also, I forgot to post about the English family. Assuming Ellen stayed to her familar circle of friends and neighbors, I doubt she would have married a stranger. Not surprising, there was an English surname family in Thomastown that had both an Edward and an Andrew, the two men buried in St Alexius cemetery with the Cody family and other cousins who emigrated to Beardstown, Illinois.

I have no evidence of a marriage to Edward English, but died 5 Aug 1850 at age 30 b: ~1820 marker “erected by Andrew English” 1811-1859 also buried St Alexius http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=english&GSiman=1&GScid=2143175&GRid=88996347&

Andrew's FindaGrave monument photo shows a pier with d: 1859 aged 48 thus b: 1811

 

Fits this one family in Thomastown:

Edward English bap: 1 Dec 1813 Thomastown/Kilkenny [only 1 Kilkenny 1810-30 range, but not a perfect birth year match]

     f: Thomas English m: Margaret Martin sponsors: Richard Deneefe and Honor Galvin

Andrew English bap: 30 Jan 1812 Thomastown/Kilkenny [grave marker date fits this]

     f: Thomas English m: Margaret Martin sponsors: James Galvin and Catharine Donnelly

Patrick English bap: 2 Apr 1820 Thomastown/of Ruppa/Kilkenny

     f: Thomas English m: Margaret Martin sponsors Thomas Power and Ellen Tobin

And with the sponsors, I see familar surnames: Power (maybe Ellen's mother's maiden name) and Tobin (a cousin)

I do think I am "onto something" as you say and I would like to write about my ancestors for XO Chronicles, especially after my visit this spring. We have so many Cody cousins in the US who are interested in their story.

Thanks again for the encouragement,

~Betsy

While reading what I posted above about the English family, I noticed the younger son Patrick "of Ruppa" and looked for them nearby.

1833 Tithe Applotment: Thos & Thomas English in Ruppa & Mungmacody

Griffith's for Ruppa (as location of family in 1820 when son Patrick was born)

Andrew English of Ruppa 7 A B (south of Mong Church near Sheastown) see attached

~50 English occupiers on Griffith's but none were Thomas or Edward or Patrick in Ruppa although many Patrick and Andrew listed around Kilkenny, still none Edward

Baptism records show Thomas was their father's name (and this name appears in Andrew English's probate as an heir making a claim, possibly the father or a brother). By the time Griffith's was recorded, Thomas was no longer listed perhaps he had died and son Andrew had his land until he left for Illinois.

Here is a brief timeline to summarize where each person was in my theory:

1850 Edward English died 5 Aug per marker in Beardstown, erected by Andrew English

1851 Ellen English 32 (advanced age suggests widow) & Walter Cody 36 married 6 Jul Cass County, Illinois

1853 Andrew English began living in Walter Cody household (per probate)

1855 Illinois State Census Cass county: Walter Cordey (misspelled), wife, dau, man Andrew's age, unknown female

1857 Ellen Cody of Beardstown places ad seeking sisters Moor

1859 Andrew English died 14 Sep, owed 6 ½ yrs board to executor brother-in-law Walter Cody

1860 Census Beardstown: Walter household: wife Ellen, dau Mary, sons Patrick & Richard, mother? Mary

1860-5 mother Mary Cody moved or perhaps died but no certificate or marker found

1865 Illinois State Census: Walter Cody & wife, 4 kids, no others

1867 Walter Cody died Beardstown (date in probate 1867, on marker 1866)

Hi Betsy:

 

Thank you for your replies and sharing your further work. 

An article in the Chronicles about this research and your trip here in May would be a wonderful addition to the site and to the parish area! 

Have a wonderful trip over and if you need further information or assistance, please let us know and we will do our best to assist.

Kind regards,

Jane.

Thank you Jane. 

I have returned to update my theory based on the attached baptism which clearly shows there were two women named Ellen who I now know married the brothers Cody: Walter and Richard. Both women would have been Mrs Ellen Cody of the missing friends adverts. See the attached file for more detail of how I pieced this together.