Rathbone, what is it, where is it, for cryin' out loud

Hello Idella,

 

If you go to a website called askaboutireland.ie (free website) and click on the griffith valuation section you might find the placenames a little easier.   You can search by placename or people.  Just put in PART of the  the placename you're trying to find and it will give yoiu all the places similar to that in the country.

 

I think your Rathbone could be Rathbeagh in Kilkenny.   If you look at the valuation you'll find many Delaneys there.  At least if you have a parish you'll be able to look at roots ireland (paying website) to see the church records.

 

Hope this may be of help to you.

 

Regards,

Anne Dennehy

Hi again,

 

Could the Candice you're looking for be St. Canice Cathedral in Kilkenny???

 

Anne

Anne, how does the Griffiths listing work?  I get a list of James Delanys, but are they all mutually exclusive?  Alternately can they be possible double listings of the one person?  James and Elizabeth married in 1845, and the Griffith's listings covered post 1848.  Do they paternalistically make one listing per couple?  What do I make of a listing of Elizabeth Delany in the county of Urlingford?  Is this an Elizabeth Delany name by birth or can it be an Elizabeth Delany spouse of James or whoever Delany?  I've not yet checked the location of Urlingford so if it's far from Kilkenny it rules itself out from being of any relevance.ELjIH

wow that was quick. sheesh thx. Now,

Anne with an e, the top of the mornin' to ya.  my younger sister is an Anne Delaney

"If you look at the valuation you'll find many Delaneys there."

I was looking at it some hours ago., so beat you to the mark.  Yes I saw the Delaneys and the Delanys.  I was commenting to my eastern state's counterpart that these are likely all 1 and the same and that the peasants themselves being illiterate could never write their own names and relied on someone else doing it, resulting in mangling.

"I think your Rathbone could be Rathbeagh in Kilkenny."

This is essentially the answer to my query.  Note the writing of the scribe of the passenger list is beautiful, hence leading me to suspect that the Rathbone is a mangling in beautiful hand writing. " is it an uninterpretable mangling of something else at which the Irish geneologist can only guess",  a direct hit, and yr best guess is it's a mangling of Rathbeagh.

EDIT;  Uh Oh.  guess what I just found. Rathbourn

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ktwllist.htm. ; Now the snippet I got today rounds it off.  The entry in the Griffith's that appears to match James is this one

SurnameFirst NameTownlandParishCountyDelanyJamesTemplemartinSt. MartinsCo. Kilkenny

Rathbeigh is nor nor east of Kilkenny town.  Rathbourne is a stone's throw from where they married in Clara

We now presume that the scribe was likely an Englishman who knew not Tipperary from Dublin, and also couldn't count to 3.  The wrong info in my ancestor's records of these 2 were numerous, and clearly this is yet another.

"Could the Candice you're looking for be St. Canice Cathedral in Kilkenny???"

Yes of course, it was a typo.  I rang WAGS, a geneological society here, and the lady quickly looked up a book of their lib collection and read out what was listed matching Templemartin.  She mentioned a super-district starting I think with G, and the last word she read out was Canice.  In other words a direct hit.  I was expecting to wait for days and there you were on-line ready to pounce.  What a pleasantly lovely surprise.  I was about to do a search for their marriage in this other site https://rootsireland.ie and I saw you'd replied already.

 

Idella,

Griffiths valuation started in the mid 1820s and stopped and atarted a couple of times .  It was published around 1850.  the original pre publication books are held in the land registry in Dublin.  You need to look really closely at these records.  If you look at the original ledger you should look to see where James rented land including a house.  Look then at the other listings for James and see if its only land he is renting.  As you know all the land was owned by gentry and farmers couls only rent from these people.  Some farmers managed to only rent a couple of acres to eke out a living but some other farmers were more well to do and could have rented land in various locations.  There is no real way that I know of to verify if its the one james delaney with many acres or if its a few james delaneys!!

I would hazard a guess that Elizabeth Delaney is somebodys widow.  You could only check that out by looking at the pre publication books.  Names were just crossed out and the new tenant or widows name inserted.

 

Anne

 

 

Anne,

why tank you madam, you're most gracious.  I have 1 single shred or snippet to give this a best gues conclusion here.  Daughter, first or second born, Mary Delaney has given this.  In a birth cert of her 3rd child, from her own report, she comes from Templemartin, right next to Rathbourn, a ston'e throw as we say down unda.  Mary was born in 1847, and the griffith's was done as you say in fits and starts around that time.  It was mid 1850 that they sailed to here, or over there actually since Geelong is around 2000 miles from here.  Well as much as I'd love a trip to your homeland to go look, my only option is to align the clues as best I can, and that entry of Templemartin for James aligns just right.  My conclusion is that the Delanys and Delaneys were all one and the same, all illiterate folk who had no control on how someone else spelt the pronunciation of their name.  And yes I thought that would be the case for an Elizabeth listed in the griffiths.

My last gaff is in my other post, the puzzle of Joanna.  A search on her for a birth or baptismal record born to James & Elizabeth comes up negative, and similarly I can't find a death record of her in Victoria.  She was listed consistently as a deceased child in the birht certs. of her later born children.

 

idella4