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Missing De Podesta Girls

KilkennyFreshford (Kilkenny)

Hello,

Can anyone help with our search for the births/baptisms of two girls who were recorded on census returns as being born in Kilkenny? Their mother, Elizabeth Bessie Read(e), was from there and married a Catholic from Genoa called Augustine De Podesta in Freshford on 5 Sept 1829.

They had 12 known children and all but these two were baptised at St Andrew, Westland Row in Dublin, where their father imported and sold fancy basket ware. The couples eldest children were born in 1830 & 1831, after which there was a gap until the next son was born in 1839. It was during this gap the two girls arrived.

Their names were:

Mary Anne (Marianne) born about 1836 & Frances born about 1838.

We've searched the RC baptism indexes in Kilkenny to no avail. My friend is now painstakingly searching through all the neighbouring parishes. So far there appears to be no record of their births anywhere in Ireland.

If anyone has any ideas as to what may have happened or where we could look next, we would be very grateful. Perhaps they were adopted into the family from Kilkenny. Is there any way of tracing adoptions at that time?

Thank you.

Kidnip22

14 replies

Kidnip22:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

The parish register for St. Andrew's Westland Row does not have a gap in the 1830s based on the index ( I assume you have the parish register). I searched on www.irishgenalogy.ie Find My Past and Roots Ireland and did not see the records.

Sometimes baptismal records were not entered. Maybe they were baptized at their home by a priest who was a family friend who was not associated with a parish. In my own family, I can't find the baptismal records for two of my grandmother's brothers who were born in 1886 and 1887. The civil birth records are available.

Adoption is a possibility but I don't think you will find record back to the 1830s. 

Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

I located a listing in the Trade's Index of Pettigrew & Oulton 1840 as follows :

De Podesta Augustine and Co., 2 Cope street

See the 3rd column - Basket makers.

There were two Cope Streets in the city Cope Street North off Marlborough St. so most likely St. Mary/Pro-Cathedral RC parish, and Cope St. South off Anglesea Street, which is off College green so would be part of St. Andrew RC parish, and so fit with John's 1839 baptism. 

There's no sign of Augustine in the 1834 directory - so maybe they were somewhere other than Dublin city at the time, and in a parish that does not have records back far enough for baptisms of Mary Anne & Frances .... records for Freshford RC parish go back to the 1770s, and appear to be complete with clear writing for the 1830s. The pages I checked were numbered, so any gaps should be obvious.

EDITED : I also located him in the 1839 edition as Anthony De Podesta & Co., fancy basket maker, at the same address, but no sign that i can find in any of the earlier listings.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you both for your replies.  It's possible the family were living in Kilkenny until 1839 but odd that their first two children were baptised in Dublin.  

We know from Elizabeth's evidence at his inquest that Augustin arrived in Ireland around 1828/29.  He may have emigrated there following the Catholic Emancipation Act, which offered work opportunities for Italian masons and other skilled workers.

There's evidence it was a mixed marriage because (after Augustin's death) their two youngest daughters were helped by the The Orphan Refuge (or Charitable Protestant Orphan Union) for the education and support of destitute orphans of mixed marriages.

Fundraising was also held “to put Mrs Podesta into business whereby she may support herself and young children”. A list of donors and donations was published.  By the following year she was selling fancy baskets in a warehouse at 1 Lincoln Place.

If anyone can help with Elizabeth Reade's birth/family in the Freshford area of Kilkenny, it would be much appreciated.  A John Reade witnessed Frances De Podesta's marriage in Clomantagh in 1859 so he was probably a relative.  

Many thanks,

Kate

 

Kidnip22

There are some Catholic Reed/Read/Ried baptisms showing up in Co. Kilkenny in the early 1800s, although no Elizabeths in Freshford parish that seem early enoungh. The best possibility by date seems to be an 'Elizabet' 1804 in Owning & Templeorum parish with parents Pat. Riede & Margaret Sexton, and although probably a little too recent there's an Elizabeth Reade baptised 1814 in Thomastown parish to William & Mary. (Mary's surname is very faded - looks like Nany ?)

Neither of these parishes are close to Freshford - 'Owning & Templeorum' is located in the south of the county near Carrick-on-Suir and the borders with Counties Waterford & Tipperary, Thomastown is located to the southeast of Kilkenny city, Freshford is located to the north west of the city.

Bear in mind that many Catholic parishes do not have records back this early so there are likely other Reade/Reed baptisms around this time in the county which will not show up in any search.

The Church of Ireland parish for the Freshford area is often listed as Aghour/Aghoura, and records seem to exist back to the 1790s, but only some of the later records from abt 1846 for that parish are available online on RootsIreland (pay-website).

Griffith's Valuation which took place in 1850 in this area, shows a number of Reade properties in Freshford civil parish which could be linked see Reade - Freshford Civil parish , the Tithe Applotment records, which date from c1826 in this area, also show a number with various spellings -  Reed/Read/Reid etc - see Freshford Reade etc.  (The Tithe records do not cover all properties and excluded certain types of land, properties in towns etc)
 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you so much for this.  I've just had a look on RootsIreland for Reades in Clomantagh (Church of Ireland) and found a family who sound very possible.  In particular, a William Reade, farmer, son of John Reade, farmer, (both of Balief) married Anne Jane Graham at Maryborough Church of Ireland on 4 Nov 1891.  One of the witnesses at their wedding was a Richard Seale.  

One of our missing Kilkenny girls was Frances De Podesta who married George Seale at Clomantagh Church of Ireland in 1859. One of the witnesses at their wedding was a John Reade.  George & Frances had a son named Richard born in 1860.

There must be a link between these two families.  It seems too much of a coincidence that Frances's mother was Elizabeth Reade, who married at Freshford in 1829.  

This has opened up a new line of research.  Thank you again.

Kidnip22

Hi Kate / Kidnip22,

I’m a descendant of William Reade of Balief and have access to some family tree research carried out by a distant relative in Canada which may be useful in your search. Let me know if you’re still following this line of enquiry.

Regards,

 

vahogg@gmail.com

I am from the Reade family, from the sister of Elizabeth Reade who married Augustine De Podesta

judithcashel20…

Hello Minerva,

I've only just seen your message - I apologise for not replying before.

I'm still interested in the Reade/De Podesta/Seale line which I'm researching for my great aunt.  Any information would be very welcome.

Best wishes,

Kate

Kidnip22

I'm not sure who sent the last message (dated Friday 28 June 2019) but I would be interested in any help researching this family.  Thank you.

Best wishes,

Kate

Kidnip22

I should have added that my email address is kidnip22@aol.co.uk for anyone wishing to correspond.

Thankyou!

 

Kidnip22
judithcashel20…

Mr Reades were from Freshford, from Major John Evans Reade and an Ann. There is a postive connection with the Seales as they were at Ann's funeral, Ann lived to be 106ish. John Evans Reade died early 1820s.

I found an article, some time ago, about Elizabeth Reade and Depodesta .It also, talked of Elizabeth having to run away from ?family, re the marriage to Deposteta was not approved of. My Mary Ann Reade  (b) 1811, in Freshford,was in the article, and either she was Elizabeth's cousin or her sister. Unfortunately,.... I now, can't find the article. It was  a few large pargraphs in length. Depodesta was supposedly  was castrated in Italy when young to keep his boys voice, as he was a well know singer, there, and his father wanted to keep it that way. The operation had already been banned but still peformed , illegally,in Genoa and thereabouts..

Where his children  with Elizabeth,came from is interesting.! Apparently Elizabeth Reade was always head strong and did what she wanted. It is interesting that one of her  later,Seale children had a second name of Davis! My Mary Ann Reade married William "Davis." !

 

It annoys me terribly that I can't find that interesting article about Depodesta and Eliz Reade, but it is out there on the internet and may be eventually found, again., 

judycashel2018@gmail.com

judithcashel20…

 Mistake... it was not Elizabeth Reade Depodesta Seale's "son", who was given a second name of dDvis, it was the Seales grandson., George Davis Seale, 1874 - 1958... Judy

judithcashel20…

Hi Judy,

I tried to email you but the message bounced back.  Perhaps you can try emailing me to see if that works?  Just a brief message will do, then I can try forwarding mine again.  It's rather long to place here.

Thanks,

Kate

 

 

Kidnip22

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