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Carnalway - Bernard Divine Descendants

KildareCarnalway (Kildare)

Just hoping for a little help...

My 2nd great grandfather Bernard Divine b abt 1801, his wife Mary , my great grandfather John Thomas Divine b 6 MAY 1840 Carnalway, Ireland and other children of Bernard imigrated to America abt 1850. Other children of Brenard included Susan J Divine b 1832, Charlotte L Divine b 1843 and William H Divine b 1846.

Bernard and his family are first noted in US 1850 census in Greene, Georgia, USA. Bernard is later noted in US 1860 census in Jefferson, Florida, USA.

It would be wonderful to make any concrete connection between these weak facts and my family's origin in Ireland.

Warm regards,

Thomas F. Divine

IrelandXO member

16 replies

Carnalway townland and civil parish would generally have been part of Newbridge RC parish, but nothing showing up on RootsIreland (pay-website) index for your John Divine in Newbridge or in any of the Co. Kildare record they have.

Widening the search to possible siblings might provide an explanation, as there are possible baptism matches based on parents first name for one of the other names you mentioned in a separate parish - Susan Divine baptised 1834 in Kilcullen Church of Ireland parish, and also a Frances Eliza in 1836 in the same parish.

Carnalway Church of Ireland Parish is also named Carnalway and only has baptism records available back to abt1864, so not early enough to include a record for John. If those Kilcullen baptisms are correct then it would appear that this Divine family started off in Kilcullen area and later moved to somewhere in Carnalway CofI parish.The two parishes are close, with Kilcullen just south of Carnalway.

Susan and Frances are the only two children I can find on the free searches. A transcript of a Church of Ireland baptism record from this timeframe would usually include the date of baptism and possibly date of birth, place of residence and/or father's occupation may be included, but not always. Note mother's maiden name is usually not included in CofI baptism records.

There's is a possible marriage record for Bernard which I'll follow up...

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

I know it will be tough to find out anything concrete.

Aside from US census reports that clearly identify "Ireland" birthplace for these individuals I don't have any more definitive information.

I mentioned "Carnalway" as John Thomas's burthplace because of fairly weak information: My father said that John Thomas was born in "Carnalway, Ireland". This isn't particularly helpful for the other family members.

I have seen some marriage records for Bernard and "Mary Ann Agar", but it doesn't seen that Mary Ann Agar is Bernard's wife also named "Mary".

Would be wonderful to know more about these folks, but unless there's a "Divine" in Ireland that is interested in cousins across the pond I doubt that I'll get much further.

Thanks VERY MUCH for your time!

Thomas F. Divine

IrelandXO member

There's conflicting information re dates available for Carnalway baptism records, Rootsireland source list mentions baptisms back to 1864 but suspect these might be civil birth records, Ryan's lists records back to 1805, but the latest RCB* list doesn't list any baptisms for the parish. Maybe there are some older records that the RCB Library are not aware of.

The bride for that Bernard Divine marriage I mentioned is a Mary Ann Agar, and took place in Kilcullen CofI parish i n1829, so fits the timeline for those two baptisms I mentioned, and the later children.

Do you have US death or marriage certs for any of the children ?
These often give parents names which would help confirm, or possibly rule out, this couple

 

*RCB=Representative Church Body Library hold Church of Ireland historic records.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

I will look more closely. Using Ancestry.com (ThomasDivine tree...) I have not yet found any death or marriage records that include more helpful information. I will take another look though.

Thomas F. Divine

IrelandXO member

How common would the naems "Bernard Divine" and "Mary Ann Agar" be?

In other words: Is it likely that the record for Bernard Divine marriage to Mary Ann Agar in 1829 is actually for my Bernard Divine and wife "Mary"? Only "extra" piece of substantiating information is that the 1829 date is "reasonable".

Warm regards,

Thomas

 

IrelandXO member

neither would be that common, particularly the surname Agar, so if there are references in the US to that combination of names as a couple among records for your known connections, then I'd say you have a good match, even if there turns out to be a slight variation in first name/middle names. Middle names were often not used, or not recorded.

I think the mention of 'Carnalway' in your family stories adds further weight to the theory that this couple in the Kilcullen area fit, as the placename is a little unusual, and unlike many other towns and townlands not a placename that has many duplicates, e.g. Ballymore or Newtown etc, or one that that I would think has many spelling variations

 

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you for your time, Shane.

Based on our discussion I will incorporate this marriage into my records - along with a note about our chat. Perhaps the assumption will eventually uncover more useful information - like Bernard's parents or siblings.

Best regards.

Thomas F. Divine

IrelandXO member

Going through my headstone photos from Kildare, I only came across one such stone;

Prosperous cemetery;

Richard Devine; Prosperous; 13/5/1981 (68) b.1913

wife-Mary Kathleen (Maisie); 6/1/1985

----

Marraige 1924; Oct-Dec; Celbridge

Bernard Devine married (one of) Edith O Kane/Ellen Leech/Mary Maher/Margaret Byrne.

=======================

Jack Mc Donald

IrelandXO member

Thank you very much, Jack!

Times are off by a century or so, lending credence to the conjecture that I have found my Bernard and Mary!

Will take a breather before hoping I can go back even further!

Regards,

Thomas F. Divine

IrelandXO member

Thanks Jack and Shane. Good luck with your search Thomas!

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

IrelandXO member

We may not be at all related, however, I am searching on behalf of my husband John Devine, his gt gt grandparents who were both from Ireland - Michael Joseph Divine born around 1828 on british census he has stated he is from Mullingar, however his wife Ann Hannon states she is from Delvin, when looking at the Griffiths evaluation page, my daughter Samantha discovered there was a Patrick Divine living in Scurlockstown, and incidentally in the neighbourhood there is a Andrew Hannon living in sheepstown, being as neighbours, its not surprising that their children ended up marrying each other in Sheffield England, we recently visited this part of Ireland, but there were no old buildings to relate to where they may have lived, I need to find links to Patrick Divine to find out who he was married to and whether there were other brothers and sisters, and the same goes for Andrew Hannon.  My husband incidentally had an uncle Bernard.  Good luck in your search ....  Christine Devine, Leeds, Yorkshire

IrelandXO member

Aye, Christine. It would surely be grand if we were related somehow.

But the records from that time simply aren't up to proving it.

It is truely interesting to examine the life of these folks as best we can. For sure, it is interesting and natural to see how important one's neighbors were in those times. Yes, often the "girl next door" (or from the next farm)was the one to marry.

Good luck to you as well!

Thomas

IrelandXO member

 

Many Hello- I know that this post is a few years old. It was started by my Daddy, Thomas F Divine, a few months before he passed. Finding it today was such an emotional find. Was wondering if anyone could help guide me in looking further for Bernard's parents. I'm not as well versed in geneology as my Father but want to find my roots prior to Bernard's birth. Does anyone know anything further or could teach or direct me how to find out more? It sounds like they might be from Kilcullen instead of Calarnay? 

Any further guidance is appreciated.

Cindy Divine 

cindyolsenga@g…

Sorry for the typo. Meant Carnalway. 

cindyolsenga@g…

Had anyone come across anymore information that might lead to Bernard's parents? I can confirm that Mary Ann Agar is indeed his wife as I have found a descendant in the family that has Agar as a middle name. 

cindyolsenga@g…

I know this board is years old, but I came across it in my own family history search. My fourth great grandmother is Charlotte L Divine! They ended up in Jefferson and Monticello Florida after leaving Ireland. I've been trying to do research on my Irish ancestry for years!

Charlotte married William A Kinsey, and she had 1 known child, Hardy Clarence Kinsey. We've kept the name Charlotte as well as Divine prevalent in our family to this day. My grandmothers middle name was Divine (but spelled "Devine"). Her full name was Charlotte Devine Kinsey, and I have a cousin named Charlotte too now :)

lgriffis

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