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Kanturk Parish Baptismal Records vs. Kanturk Union Records in Griffith's

GalwayKilmeen (Galway)

BAPTISMAL RECORDS

I found a baptismal record for Henry Connor with Owen Connor and Catherine Rourke as parents, dated May 2, 1830. I found these on "rootsireland".The Parish/District is noted as Kanturk. Also one for Daniel Connor with the same parents dated August 23, 1818 and the Parish/District is Ballyclough. I think these two were brothers. Henry was my great grandfather and left for Wales around 1865. In the 1881 Welsh Census, Henry and Daniel lived next door to each other. Henry would later immigrate to America in 1882.

There are 4 other children I could find with the same parents:

Julia Connor- May 7, 1820--Ballyclough Edmond Connor-September 8, 1822--Kanturk Patrick Connor-March 9, 1828--Kanturk Catherine Connor-Septemer 26, 1832--Kanturk

It seems that the family moved from Ballyclough to Kanturk after 1820. Are these civil or church parishes when noted in a Baptismal Record? I have read that Church ParishRecords and Civil Parish Records are not called by the same name and yet could be dealing with the same people. I hope this makes sense. Additionally the Priest named in 4 of the6 Baptismal Records is noted as "Rev E NE" or "E N". This makes me think they were all performed by the same priest covering a span of a decade and were probably in the same church. Patrick's Church Record notes "Lackanrelig" as the address. Is this a street or what?

GRIFFFITH'S VALUATION/ CIVIL RECORDS

I found 11 Owen Connor in Griffith's Valuation in County Cork. Coupled with these Baptistmal Records, the 3 that make the most sense would put Owen (Henry's father) in the Barony of Duhallow, Union of Kanturk (this is where some of my confusion comes in) and Civil Parish of Kilmeen. The 3 Townland possibilities are Cloongeel, Shanavoher or Glenalougha. Is it possible these Townlands match up with the Baptismal Records and which one is the most likely to be the place where Henry was born and baptized? He would have been 22 when Griffith's was done for County Cork in 1852.

I hope all the details above makes the answer easier to find and not more complicated.

Sincerely and thanks in advance, Kathleen Connors Hartley

IrelandXO member

10 replies

Kathleen:

Ballyclough and Kanturk on the baptismal records are RC parishes. Accoring to a reference book that I have, Kanturk records start in 1822. My guess is that Ballyclough was the only church around pre-1822 and when Kanturk opened they started using that church. They probably lived in the same location.

Lackanrelig was probably a place name/townland but it does not show up in the master list of townlands that were developed from the 1851 census. 

Regarding the 1852 Griffiths, I would agree that Kilmeen parish is close to Ballyclough and Kanturk parishes. I have been looking for a map of the area with no success and so far I have not had any luck with Google Maps.

One thing to keep in mind is that if Owen was deceased by 1852, he would not be on the Griffiths.

I will keep looking to see if I can determine which townland is closest.

Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Kathleen:

I went to the OSI map site and it looks like Cloongeel is about 3 miles to the west of Kanturk town. 

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,533068,604151,4,10

I have not found Glenalougha or Shanavoher yet but they are not close to Cloongeel.

Roger

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks for your quick response. As dumb as this sounds, I never considered the possibility of Owen not being around in 1852. I was just so happy after decades of research that I was able to come up with a name from Henry's marriage certificate for his father Owen, I was beside myself. I received the attached Document from a 2nd cousin in Wales related to Henry. 

Again, I will keep looking.

Sincerely, Kathleen

IrelandXO member

Hi Kathleen:

 

Sorry to join this conversation late.  My own great-grandfather came from Kilmeen (Duhallow) in Cork.  That parish was amalgamated with Boherbue (Boherboy) in the late 1800s.  There is a small graveyard there that you can access online through Historic Graves (http://www.historicgraves.com). 

You also might try the www.irishgenealogy.ie website as they have records for that area (it falls in under the Kerry Diocese). 

 

Jane

Tulla Clare, IrelandXO VolunteerIrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you for responding. When you say the Parish amalgamated, are you speaking of the Civil or the Roman Catholic Parish?  Maybe it's just me, but despite the fairly extensive research I have done, I still find this confusing as most accounts I've read document that Civil and Catholic Parishes can differ in names. I have a Baptismal Certificate (just viewing it online) and it notes Henry Connor's Baptism in the Parish of Kanturk. I assume because it's a Church Record, they mean the CATHOLIC Parish and not the Civil one. The Civil Parish of Kilmeen from what I understand is in the Poor Law Union of Kanturk. I have Griffith's with 3 Owen Connor's living in Cloongeel, Glendalougha or Shanavoher, all in the Civil Parish of Kilmeen. The townland of Cloongeel appears to be the closest to the town of Kanturk. What church would they have attended? I know it may not still be there, but are there ruins and an old graveyard? I think they were poor and maybe didn't even have a headstone.

The historic graveyard website only has about 120 or so of County Cork's 600+ graveyards and so far I have had no luck with that site and for sure no luck at all with the Irish Genealogy website but I am going to try again.

Additionally (I apologized for belaboring this) but I've read that the Kanturk Catholic Diocese belongs to Cloyne. It's all very convoluted, but I will tell you, I have no intention of giving up. It's just not in my nature. I guess that's a Cork ancestry trait.

Kathy 

IrelandXO member

What is the name of the small graveyard that I can access on historic graves for Kilmeen/Boherboy? I read that a new church was built over the site of the old church. Where would the old graveyard be? How close if the townland of Cloongeel to Boherboy? 

Thanks in advance,

Kathy

IrelandXO member

Hi Kathleen:

 

Here is the link to the graveyard:  http://historicgraves.com/graveyard/kilmeen/co-klmn. 

As to the term "amalgamated", by that I mean that they joined up (catholic parish).    There is a website about Boherbue parish and here is the link to that below.  I don't know if it's any assistance to you, but maybe worth a look.

http://www.boherbue.com/kilmeen.html

My own great-grandfather came from Ballyhoulahan Middle in Kilmeen.  I'm still looking for other connections, and I believe that one of them may be from Cloongeel townland (Sullivans and Savages). 

You're right about confusing:  civil parishes and catholic parishes don't often have the same names.  Did you try www.irishgenealogy.ie? ; I found my great-grandfather's baptismal record in that.  It was under the Diocese of Kerry, but in County Cork.  Boherbue/Kilmeen is only about 10 miles from the Kerry border. 

Kilmeen is about 4 miles or so from Boherbue.  I was there about 8 years ago with my father who wanted to see where my great-great-grandmother was buried.  Unfortunately, there isn't any stone. 

Good luck, and please get back to me if you need further assistance. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Jane.

 

 

Tulla Clare, IrelandXO VolunteerIrelandXO Volunteer

I really appreciate you always responding back so quickly.

I have never had any luck with the Irish Genealogy website. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I looked at the Boherbue site and it has helped a lot. I have had great success with the Roots Ireland Website. I feel 99.99% sure that the Baptismal Certificate I found there for Henry Connor/Connors with Owen as his father is accurate. In the 1900 US Census (the only one Henry is on in the US as he missed the 1880 Census coming here from Wales in 1882 and the 1890 being destroyed by fire), he's really difficult to pin down. You can see from the Marriage Document I have attached that Owen was his father. This is also the ONLY record I have to prove this. Henry's travels from Ireland (Baptism in 1830), his migration to Wales (probably about 1862 or 1863) have made him more elusive.

I found 6 Baptismal Records (1818, 1820, 1822, 1828, 1830 and 1832) all with Owen Connor/Connors and Catherine Rourke as parents. I found all these on Roots Ireland. I believe these all to be Henry's siblings but in particular the one of Daniel for 1818. You will notice on the Marriage Record I sent that Daniel and Ellen are witnesses at this marriage. There are other documents that make me think this Daniel is Henry's older brother. After the 1832 Baptismal Records, the family as a whole seem to vanish. Did they go to a Workhouse or die in the ensuing Famine? I wonder.

Six months ago when I returned from Ireland I didn't even know who Henry's father was, so I realize I am making great progress. Henry himself is buried in an unmarked grave in Pennsylvania. I always thought people had headstones. Boy are we spoiled in this country. I also know the family was very poor when they settled in Pennsylvania, So I guess if I never find a Headstone in the Historic Graveyard site, I won't be too disappointed. Also I know from research that that site only has 132 graveyards accounted for in County Cork and there are over 600.

I apologize if I am rambling.

I do also feel very confident that Owen and Henry came from the Ballycough, Cloongeel (there is an Owen in Cloongeel in Griffith's) and the Kanturk, Boherbue area. At least I've narrowed it down to a much smaller square mile radius than just they came from "Cork".  I also wonder if Owen was even alive in 1852 when Griffith's was logged in at that time? Griffith's however coupled with the Baptismal Records tell me I'm on the right track.

One final query.. How important is the Surname spelling. I've seen it spelled everyway... Connors, Connor, Conners and O'Connor. Research states it doesn't matter and that they're all the same, but wouldn't they at least get it right on one's final resting place. An uncle I never knew in Pennsylvania changed his last name from Connors to O'Connor shortly before he died in 1944. I never knew why, but in America (at least in my way of thinking) it would have been done to assert pride in being Irish. 

Thanks again and I look forward to your response.

Kathy

One final question. Is it customary in Ireland for families to all be buried in the same graveyard or did it depend on one's financial status? Why is there just one headstone commemorating many people? Are they buried side by side in that event?

IrelandXO member

Hi Kathy:

 

No problem at all re rambling.  We all have to do that to try to make sense of the pieces of the puzzle!!

First, there were many spelling variations and that is always important to keep in mind.  Connor could be O'Connor/Conors,Connor, Conner, etc.  Believe me, it can be wrong on any document or headstone.  He may have ordered it spelled one way, and the mason spelled it another!  During the 1800s and particularly after the Famine during the Gaelic Revival, many families reverted back to the O' name as opposed to Connor/Conner/Connors.  I have seen this a lot in baptismal registers. 

As to your second question re family members being buried in the same plot-- it is always a possibility that there is a second plot for the following generation.  It really depends.  What I would be very interested in (as would you) would be the burial register for Kilmeen graveyard.  I have enquired about this but have not yet gotten a definite response.  If I do, I will certainly let you know. 

Irish genealogy can be tricky to deal with.  A lot of the time, the best way to view the records is to browse them as opposed to searching them.  If you click the "browse" button and type in the RC Diocese of Kerry (Kilmeen/Boherbue was in that) you might have better luck. 

You seem to have made great progress with your baptismal records from roots ireland and by all means, I would not disregard them for the time being. 

The very best of luck with your research.  Please let me know how you are progressing and by all means, get back to me if you need further assistance.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jane.

Tulla Clare, IrelandXO VolunteerIrelandXO Volunteer

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