Catholic parish records for Kilcroan

Thanks very much for the replies!  I have looked through the parish records for Glinsk/Kilbegnet, but my point is that those parish records may not contain records for all of the churches within that parish, particularly baptisms and marriages performed in the church at Glinsk.  Prior to 1865, the surviving records may only be for the church at Kilbegnet, and perhaps Dunamon.  I'm just not sure.

I've looked through the parish records, at least partially, and found many Hegartys, but not my own family.  I would appreciate if you let me know if you ever run across records pertaining to the family of James Hegarty (ca. 1801-1881) and his wife Catherine Hussey (ca. 1810-1879) from Kilsallagh.  The children that I know about:  Patrick (b. ca 1841), Mary (b. ca 1842), Bridget (b. ca 1848), James (b. ca 1852), and Catherine (b. ca 1854).

Roger, I will also inquire at the site you mentioned.  Thanks again

Brian

Col,

Thanks very much for looking.  I tend to think the 1791 baptism you found is not my James Hegarty, but I really have no way of knowing.  Also, since I've found no marriage records for the family, I have no way of knowing whether James was married prior to Catherine Hussey.  I only know that Catherine was his wife when son James was born, about 1852.

After doing a bit more looking, I see the Glinsk church is actually in the civil parish of Ballynakill, so I suspect that the Glinsk records prior to 1865 are actually part of the "Ballinakill and Kilcrone" records that are currently considered within the Catholic parish of Ballintubber & Ballymoe.  However, I have now checked these as well, and still no luck.

Perhaps my Hegartys attended the Ballymoe church, where it seems records prior to 1865 do not exist.  If you know of any sources for Ballymoe records prior to 1865, please let me know.  (All of the pre-1865 records for the Catholic parish of Ballintubber & Ballymoe actually seem to be for the Kilcrone and Glinsk churches.)

I see now the Kilcrone church (in the townland of Curries) is in ruins.  Do you (or does anyone) know when it closed its doors?

Brian

Brian, in fact records prior to 1865 do exist for Ballymoe/Ballintubber.  On IFHF website, I searched for Hagerty Baptism and this is the only Hagerty-Hussey combo.  I am very familiar with these records as I have searched them in Ireland.  There are missing dates in the baptisms in the 1850s which is why some of them might not appear.  The townlands are not usually listed until Civil registrations which, for your people, will be in Galway, either the Glenamaddy or Williamstown district.  I think deaths are usually under Williamstown but look for both places.  In  Williamstown Civil Parish, I found a marriage of Mary Hegerty to John Crosby 16 Sept 1866.  Her father, James, and she was from Kilsallagh. Witnesses were Ellen and Pat Hegerty.  No mother name given.  Bridget married Thomas Madden 6 March 1868.  Her father was James, she was from Killsallagh.  Witnesses were  Ellen Hegerty and James Madden.  Patrick married Mary McElroy 9 Feb 1869.  His father was James and both bride and groom were from Killsallagh.  Witnesses were Michael Hegerty and Mary O'Brien. A Catherine Hegerty, age 21, spinster, from Killsallgh died  1 Sept 1875 (Williamstown Parish).  Present at death: James Hegerty (no relation given).  Catherine Hegerty, married, Killsallagh, age 69 died 1 Mar 1879.  Present at death: James Hegerty ( no relation given).  James Hegerty, widower Killsillagh, died age 80 15 June 1881. Present at death: Pat Hegerty (no relation given)

I have been avidly following this thread because, like Brian, I have been stumped by the parish records in this area - it’s exciting to find someone researching the same townland !

After 11 years, I believe I’ve narrowed down my ancestors’ home to Kilsallagh (or at least somewhere nearby along the R364), but as they left around 1845 / 1846  there seem to be very few pre-Civil registration records available.

I am looking for John Cannon (sometimes Concannon) and his wife Ellen Shiel (or Sheil) who had three children, namely John (1838) Patrick (1841) and Bridget (1843).  I would be deeply grateful if any of you knowledgeable people could unearth even one record to confirm for me that this was once their home.

Patti365, thank you so much for your reply.  I had checked so many indexes at various sites, but for some reason never pulled up the entry for Mary (b. 1843) that was in your reply when I first read it, but now cannot find it in there.  In any case, all of the entries you mentioned are for my family.  I have previously gone through all of the civil records, but the church entry from 1843 I had not found, so I appreciate it.

Demeter, I have subsequently gone through the church record sets available at NLI, and I suspect that the following individual Catholic churches from that area are represented on the parish microfilms as follows:

Glinsk on 04618/06

Kilcroan on 04618/06

Ballymoe on 04618/05 and /08

Kilbegnet on 04620/01

The lone record of my family from Kilsallagh, found by Patti365, was on 04618/06, so perhaps your family will be found there as well.  Both Glinsk and Kilcroan were equally close to Kilsallagh, and were the two closest churches to that townland.

Brian

Demeter, I had no luck finding baptisms for the three Concannon/Cannon Shiel children when I looked at IFHF.  Tithe records do not show a Concannon or Shiel in Kilsallagh or nearby in the late 1820s but that simply means that they didn't have to pay the tithe.

My subscription to Find my Past is not current but I have attached a screen shot of my search of the Poverty Loan Records.  Where the location says "Galway" are the entries of interest.  If you did a pay as you go, you could check a few of these.  The records usually indicate the location of the person receiving the loan and who the guarantors were.  This is the best chance of locating someone who could be your ancestor in this time period.

Patti65 and Brian,

Thank you so much for these valuable leads !   This is territory I've not tried before, so  I will investigate further and report back with any findings for the benefit of others who may subsequently visit this thread.

Dear All,

I am thrilled and delighted to tell you that following your advice I've spent the weekend combing through the NLI microfilms you suggested  -  and have struck gold !!
On Kilcroan 04618/06 microfilm is the 1842 baptism of Bridget, the youngest of John & Ellen's three children born in Ireland :-

Brigittam fi Johannis Cannon & Ellenorus Sheil  spp  Honora 'Heany' (or Keavy / Hurly, either of which would neatly match a neighbour's name)   Mathias J Barrett

 It's a year earlier than the date they generally quoted on census, and I'm intrigued to see that (matching this script with the initials by each entry) it looks as if the priest put his own name as the second sponsor - was this a common practice ?

I've been looking through various online ecclesiastical directories hoping to find out which parish Mathias J Barrett belonged to in 1842, but the only priest of that name is listed in Boyle (Roscommon) some years later.

I've been unable to spot baptism records for her siblings John and Patrick, however I've yet to delve into the Poverty Loan Records, which might yield further clues on location .......

Thank you once again for breaking an 11 year 'wall' for me !

Demeter

Demeter, excellent work!  The transcriptions of the Parish records, as found on IFHF, are often inaccurate.  I have "ground truthed" them and made many corrections to my own notes.  The priests seem to have frequently put their names or initials after entries and I have also seen that there is frequently only one sponsor listed.  

Where was the priest?  I asked the same question of Joe Poole, current parish priest of Ballymoe/Ballintubber and he said Fr. Barrett was in Ballymoe.  Having looked at the records many times, I have a theory.  Back in the early to mid 1800s, there were townlands near Glynsk that were also covered by the Ballymoe priest. That changed around the 1860s or so.  I think that the priests might have traveled through the district during the year doing baptisms and marriages and then rewritten his notes.  Why do I think this?  When looking at the names of people who married/baptized, there seems to be a series of names that are uniquely from one area.  For example, Featherstone, is usually found near Creggs or Glynsk.  Conboys are closer to Ballymoe area.    Unique names, like these, seem to be clustered within a day or two of each other.  In some cases, there are two couples who marry the same day and act as witnesses to the other.  

There are missing pages of those records and I have asked Joe Poole where they might be but he doesn't know. He paid handsomely to have the books properly preserved and bound but they were in the state that he found them.  I don't know when they were filmed but, the missing pages I need, aren't in the films.  They don't seem to be anywhere.  I am going to email Joe and ask about the state of those books when he found them.

Patti65   While I admire the tenacity of volunteer transcribers, I am also wary of trusting their interpretation;  as tough as it is on the eyes, I’d much rather see the script for myself.
 

Thank you for all of this fascinating insight into these records, it adds such valuable details.  As I worked through them I did wonder whether there might be clusters of entries for a locality, so I'll now go back over them again – and yes I have previously found an example (in UK) of two Irish couples who did a “double-marriage”.  That must have been a light-hearted and memorable day for all !

My query about the priest adding his name to the entry was because our sketchy family lore has always maintained that there was some urgency to their emigration to England - some believe it was due to a false accusation of the theft of livestock.  Having seen page after page of baptisms with two supporters this entry seemed unusual;  I wondered if they'd perhaps been ostracised over some dispute ........
Ah, the lure of genealogy, these glimpses of people and times gone by !

 I’m thankful to read that you have open dialogue with the current parish priest too as I have read that many Irish clergy are weary of being bombarded with information requests.

I empathise with your frustration over the missing records (perhaps they include mine too!).  I read online recently of a country cottage being cleared after a bereavement and the relatives found a collection of church records and school registers tucked away in the attic – so miracles can happen !

Patti65, I fully agree about the parish registers.  When I broke down which churches were covered on which microfilms, I did so by cross-checking common surnames in the registers with the Tithe books and Griffiths to try to estimate townlands of residence where not given, and from there, the closest Catholic church.  There may of course be errors.  There are instances in some registers where dates backtrack, and I figure that was due to collecting information from different priests, or different churches in the same parish, into the same register at some later date.

Register 04618/06, while collected by NLI under the parish "Ballintubber and Ballymoe", is in fact labeled "Ballinakill and Kilcrone (Ballintubber)" on its title page, which supports my theory that most of the records therein are from the churches at Glinsk and Kilcroan.  No one has been able to tell me when Kilcroan closed its doors, but perhaps Fr. Poole knows?

I didn't see any large gaps in that particular register, but like Demeter, I was only able to find one baptismal record of my family (actually you found it, 1843), where I would have expected several, so maybe there are in fact missing records.

Demeter, the "horse thief" myth seems to appear in the lore of a lot of European families.  While I can't say for sure, I tend to doubt it's true in most instances.  Here in America, the common genealogical myths are "three immigrant brothers" and "Cherokee princess ancestor."  Regarding the finding of lost records, one can always hope!

Brian

Brian, I have been looking for the links for what I am going to relate but cannot find them...not enough coffee yet.  That said, Kilcroan Parish is, I believe, a division of the Diocese of Elphin with chapels in Ballymoe and Ballinakill.  This actual building is very old, with the ruins located within Kilcroan Cemetery, just outside of Ballymoe.  I believe it's proper location is Ballyglass.  This link may be helpful and one of the photos lists the names of people buried there.  There is a very old section and a newer one.  People are still buried there, but generally those with existing  plots.   http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=2519934

I have a book:  https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwjst7-9vtzOAhVKNoEKHUoqAv8YAB…

The Diocese of Elphin, by Francis Beirne which describes the history the area, including Ballymoe.  It's worth reading to get a better understanding of the organization of the diocese/churches.

My notes regarding missing records of Ballymoe: April of 1850 to June of 1856.   Page 125, as seen in microfilm probably belongs to some other church as the dates overlap those on page 122/123.  The ink and handwriting are noticably different too.

I forgot to tell you about the Valuation Office Land Revision Records on microfilm from LDS/Family Search.  https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Ireland_Land_and_Property  Very helpful in following who property passed to after the 1856 Griffiths Valuation.  While it can be difficult to tell exactly what year it changed hands, it can provide clues to when someone died, or maybe moved.  These records start with 1856 period and go through to 1940s.  They are listed alpha by electoral district. The one I used was Ballymoe 

v. 1-2 Electoral division: Ballinastack Ballymoe

Family History Library

British Film

836493 

Thanks for your help Patti - greatly appreciated

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

Ireland XO

Brian & Patti65, just wanted to thank you again for your immense help and advice.  I am in awe of your knowledge on all matters Irish !  

The book you mention, Diocese of Elphin, sounds very interesting;  I will find a copy of that too.

Since finding that vital baptism record and going back through my notes all kinds of new directions have opened up - but my main aim is to go through the Land Revision Records and the Poverty Relief Loans and ideally find absolute confirmation. Frustratingly, work commitments are going to hold me back for a few weeks now but I will return with my findings a.s.a.p !

with very best wishes,

Demeter

Demeter, you should find the Land Revision Records very helpful, I know I did.  They hold a wealth of information if you can get past some of the overwritten entries.  I found the Poverty Relief Loan records less helpful, but that may have been my bad luck.  Ballymoe was the closest record set to my family's townlands, but I don't know how big the area covered by Ballymoe was as regards those records.  I couldn't find any trace of my family there.

Patti65, thanks for pointing me to Beirne's book on Elphin, I had not heard of it but would love to try to find a copy somewhere if I can.  Regarding Kilcroan, the chapel, or ruins thereof, is in Curries, although the cemetery may be in Ballyglass.  Findagrave seems to have only records of the newer section.  Kilcroan currently exists as a civil parish, but not a Catholic parish.  It now lies within the Catholic parish of Glinsk & Kilbegnet (aka Creggs), but is within Elphin, so that book should definitely be of help.

My family missing from the Ballymoe records was baptized prior to 1850, so the 1850-1856 gap shouldn't explain their absence.  Again may just have been bad luck.  Thanks again,

Brian

Brian, the Poverty Loan records puzzle me too.  For me, they are a wealth of information as the people seem to be largely from that Ballymoe area.  Here and there, I find people from a bit further south (like 2 miles) from Ballincurry.  So, I don't know if the PLR for Killsalagh might be in another set of records. For instance, I wonder if there might be some for the Glinsk (Glynsk) area.  I don't think that I have ever looked for those.  Maybe they don't exist, maybe they were destroyed.  Certainly, there should have been a relief program for that area too.  Well, Scooby, it looks like we have another mystery on our hands!

Sharing some exciting news!  Today, the Irish GRO record images are available for searching.  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

These records cover the birth, marriage and deaths after 1860.  While there are limits on available years for each category, they are worth looking at.  I didn't find the some that I wanted (probably never got registered) but I did use them to fill in unknown dates from the early 1900s.  For our purposes on this page, search Glenamaddy.

Hi Brian,
I would be distantly related to you through the Hegarty/Crosby/Keaveney family connection from Kilsallagh, Ballymoe. I have a bit done on the 3 families mentioned above and am quiet happy to discuss it with you!!
Regards, Liam.