Achloghan

hi,

re: Does anyone know of another contender for her place of origin.

The Townlands of Fermanagh are listed here http://seanruad.com/cgi-bin/iresrch

 

RE: there is no record of this woman's birth or marriage in Aghalurcher

Civil registration is the government recording and registering of births, marriages, and deaths. Registration began in Ireland in 1864.  However, registration of Protestant marriages had begun earlier in 1845. 

There are sometimes Church records that are older, but you would need to know the Parish name.

If PRONI tell you there are no Church records for the marriage of the couple, they are probably correct.

I belong to a Fermanagh Genealogy list where a couple of members are researching the FARRELL family, I have posted an enquiry and will let you know if they would like to get in touch.

Regards,

SEAN

The Townlands of Fermanagh do not include a place called Achloghan. I'm seeking some Irish assistance to have a guess at where this might really have been.  Ann didn't come from nowhere.

re: Ann didn't come from nowhere.

If you want help for FREE, it pays to be nice to people.

 

re: The Townlands of Fermanagh do not include a place called Achloghan

fyi

The website is not a phonebook - you need to look for phoenetic matches or Townlands that have a similar meaning in the original Gaelic.

A prefix ACH would likely be spelt AGH or AUGH - it is not an exact science.

There were no formal spellings of placenames in those days.

You are talking about an 1841 entry in a ledger in Old English made by someone English who interpreted what he heard in an 1840s Fermanagh accent.

Old Irish and English dont mix very well, even more so when you have old Irish with hints of Scottish mixed in for good measure.

Townlands were descriptions of the terrain in Gaelic.

These were then Anglicised by the Brits.

If you do not have the skills to interpret the information I suggest you respect those that do.

 

That's my list too Roger, based on the Townlands, which is comforting.  It means my fake Irish accent isn't too far off the mark.  Ann Farell's mother was an Armstrong and the Armstrong's seem to be prolific in Aghalun, a bit less so in Aghalaan and Aghaleague but not at all in Aghalane.  Farrells, however, seem thin on the ground everywhere. The other horrible possibility is, as someone else has suggested, she was referring to the whole Clogher diocese! Stuff of nightmares, but that sees too sophisticated a concept for an illiterate dairy maid and she would more likely give a 'native place' closer to her personal experience.

Sean99, Please do not interpret my deep frustration as disrespect. I understand most of what you say about interpretation. I realised some time ago that the spelling of Ann's 'native place' on her indent was a product of an Irish voice meeting an English ear. I have six Irish ancestors but the last of them came to this country in 1841. There have been no Irish voices in my family for 150 years. My chance of guessing how Ann might have sounded are next to nil. I can trawl the lists of Townlands until the cows come home but I cannot hear the names. Which is why I was hoping this website might help because you have a better chance of making an educated guess than I ever will.

As it turns out Roger McDonnell has been giving it a go and come up with some suggestions which confirm some of my own thinking and given me possibiliies to explore - which is more than I have had to date. The rest is up to me.

Some information that may help you find the Townland, from  a couple of different sources.

Achloghan I think means a "row of stones/stones purposely put there", more likely to be stepping stones over a river/bog or sometimes, less likely, to be the ruin of an old stone structure of some sort (a fort). Therefore, it would likely be anglicised to Cloghan.

There is a Cloghan, Kinawley Parish and a Cloghan Hill, Killesher.
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If it was prefixed 'Agha' then this would have been "field of the 
stones (man-made)" and there is an Aghaclogh in Kinawley Parish as well.
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I would put Aghaclogh on the list. (as Clogh tends to  be a single large stone, usually holy or has local myth and legends  attached). So Aghaclogh is more like the field of the standing stone.  Singular.

Personally, I’m more of the opinion it's Cloghan. There is a deliberate  'an' at the end, even someone not used to the Irish accent would hear this. Im also leaning more towards it being descriptive of an old ruin (someones or somethings), like a stone fort or something, rather than stepping stones in a river. Therefore Cloghan Hill sounds closer to a better match.

I have no evidence to back these claims up, its just personal feeling on the matter. 

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I would suggest the townland, 'Altagoahan' which is in Aghalucher.

James

 

The search for Aghloghan – is this a result?

Having been told by PRONI that Ann Farrell was not born or married in Arghalurcher, my first option for a substitute for the non-name, Aghloghan, and armed with new suggestions for possible alternatives I have spent an eye-glazing 24 hours with Griffith's Valuation.

Facts to start with:

• Ann said her native place was in Fermanagh.

• Ann's father was James Farrell – a carpenter.

• Her mother was Ann Armstrong.

• Both her parents were dead in 1841 when Ann left the country so since the Fermanagh valuation wasn't finished until 1864 we are relying on the counting of remaining relatives.

• Ann's children were called James, Edward, Jane, John, Lancelot and Robert Farrell. Some of these would be named after her husband's relatives but we don't know which ones as we do not know if there were any non-surviving children born in Ireland.

Farrell

I started with Farrell because that was Ann's fathers name and most likely to appear on a tenant agreement. I found only 32 Farrells (of any Christian name) in the whole of Fermanagh. The only Townlands beginning with A in which they appeared were Aghalun, Aghnacloy and Aghnaloo. Only Aghalun meets the phonetic challenge.

Armstrong

Armstrong is the third most common surname in Fermanagh so I decided to limit my search to the Christine names of Ann's children. I found 158 Armstrongs in this search. The only Townlands beginning with A they appeared in were Aghalun, Aghnacloy, Annaghmore and Aghnaclinch. Again only Aghalun meets the phonetic challenge.

Possible Townlands

I compiled a list of the suggestions for possible Townland candidates from everyone's suggestions and used the place name search facility in Griffiths Valuation with the following results:

• Achlogan no such place
• Aghaclogh no such place
• Aghalaan no Farrells or Armstrongs present
• Aghalane no Farrells or Armstrongs present
• Aghaleague no Farrells or Armstrongs present
• Aghalun 9 Armstrongs out of 126 records; 1 unoccupied dwelling owned by a Mary Farrell
• Altagoahan no such place
• Cloghan no Farrells or Armstrongs present

The website did not recognise several places which I assume is because of changes in spelling.

Conclusion

Its risky to be definite, as there could be another candidate lurking somewhere, but it seems Aghalun, present day Brookeborough, is the best candidate for Ann's native place. It has the benefit of a combined numeric and phonetic advantage over just about any other Townland.

I thank everyone for their help.

Christine

Not sure this really helps, but...

fyi

The only FARREL I can find mentioned as leasing property in Fermanagh before 1841 is listed below.

This is a record of him surrendering the lease on a house, I have no idea what happened to him after that.

31 July 1794

Surrender by Joseph Farrel, Breandrum, Co. Fermanagh, to Francis Brooke, Colebrooke, Co. Fermanagh, of lease dated 1st Oct. 1726 relating to a tenement in Brookeborough, Castle Park lands in Lisolvan, Co. Fermanagh, consid. 5s.

Thanks for that little gem. There is no way of knowing if he is a relative, its true, but it does confirm that the rare Farrell species has been sighted in Aghalun/Brookeborough in the past. Judging from Griffith's valuation Sir Victor Brooke, a famous shooter of antelopes, was a major landlord in the area in the 1860s.

Christine

 

 

 

Findmypast have 48 hours free access to Births, Marriages, etc. you may be lucky to find something there.

They have some records no one else does.

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/world?lastname=farrell&eventyear=1800&eventyear_offset=1841®ion=ireland&collection=births%20utf0026%20baptisms%2cdeaths%20utf0026%20burials&county=fermanagh

Also try PRONI for Wills, I was lucky enough to find a couple that were hugely useful.

Two of my ancestors owned property in more than one Townland which means they were legally required to leave a Will.

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx

Also there are a few snippets of old partial Census returns and Church records over at...

http://www.fermanagh-gold.com/search1?term=farrell&catalog=&subcat=

I am not sure how useful they will be.

 

Your ancestor left Ireland before the famine hit in 1845-1851.

If her father was a Carpenter, he may of emigrated with the rest of his family when times started getting tough - he had a skill that would have been in demand in England or elsewhere.

If he leased land in Fermanagh, he could have just walked away from it; a lot of Freeholders went bankrupt in Fermanagh because their Tenants kept dying or emigrating and they were not getting any rental income from the property they owned.

The population of Fermanagh halved during the 1840s in some places.

http://www.impartialreporter.com/news/roundup/articles/2011/08/18/394249-population-in-parts-of-fermanagh-almost-halved-after-the-great-famine/

No the carpenter never left Ireland.  He, and his wife, were already dead when his daughter and her husband came to Australia as Bounty immigrants. Most of my Irish ancestors came here in 1840-41 under the Bounty system designed to replace the cheap labour lost when the convict sysem ceased. Generally it was the pressure of the population growth on land and the change from tenant farming to grazing in some areas that drove them out - but not in this case as both Anne and her husband appear to have been 'in service'. So they missed the Great Famine.

fyi

N. Ireland Placenames seach engine.

http://www.placenamesni.org/results.php

If you search Youtube for "Fermanagh accents" there are a few videos of people speaking.

It won't be the same as 1840s Irish but you should get the flavour of it.