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Thomas Lyons died Dublin 1849

Dublin

The reason for my message is that I have a friend who is currently in Ireland and I was hoping to take advantage of that. I was wondering whether she may be able to search for some records of an ancestor who died in Dublin.

The ancestor, Thomas Lyons, was living in England but died in Dublin 24 July 1849 after a short illness, "much regretted". His death was reported in English, Scottish and Irish papers. He was a partner in the firm Shackell, Lyons and Edwards, Coppice row, London. They were printing ink makers. They made a specially formulated ink for the first adhesive postage stamp, the Penny Black, in 1840.

Thomas was born c. 1801 (place unknown). He was apprenticed as a printer and was 'made free' 11 April 1820, probably in London. He married Mary Ann (probably Cunningham) c. 1823 and had nine children c.1824-c.1843 in London. His death left his widow rich. Some sons followed him into printing in London. However, he may have been born in Ireland (1841 census is equivocal on this point). His father's name was given as Mitchel (sic) on one record.

I don't know what he was doing in Dublin in 1849 (quite possibly a business trip) and have found no evidence for where he was buried (Dublin or London). I found no evidence of his body going back to London, which I imagine would have been extremely rare at that time anyway. I have not been able to go further back on his family line and was hoping that if I could locate his burial there might be a few clues, such as others in the same grave, name on burial documents etc. Even his religion, or the cemetery, could be helpful.

I have searched online for death and burial records. I have not been able to clarify what cemeteries were in use in Dublin in 1849. I thought perhaps if I could do that, my friend could visit and see if they have a cemetery office, similar to Australia, where they could do a look-up.

Am I taking the wrong tack? Can you suggest a better use of some precious time in Dublin? Can you tell me what cemeteries were in use in Dublin in 1849 or where he may have ended up? Any comments would be appreciated. If it turns out he was born in Ireland, that starts me down a whole nother route.

Thanks and regards,

IrelandXO member

12 replies

jwsailwalk:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I will forward your message to our Dublin expert.

Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

From around the middle of the 19th century use of the old city Graveyards was gradually phased out, although a few burials took place for those with ancient burial rights, after this time most of the burials took place in the outlying cemeteries in Co. Dublin and the suburbs - Prospect/Glasnevin for "those of all religions and none", and Mount Jerome in Harold's Cross for mostly non-Catholic at this time.

Glasnevin burials are online and there's a free index search, with full details available for a fee. There's only one Thomas Lyons burial that I could see in 1849, with age 9.

Mount Jerome do not have an official website, but there are a large number of headstone transcripts and photos available for this Cemetery on the IGP website.

The old smaller city cemeteries are much more difficult to search, many have been long closed and have no office and there are no centralized records available. There's a map and list of these cemeteries and graveyards on the Dublin Graveyards Directory  (Dublin CIty Library). Catholic parishes rarely kept death/burial records but the Church of Ireland, the established Church, usually did, death/burial records for many of the CofI parishes in the City are available (free) on the IrishGenealogy website.

P.S. another possible line of research would be newspapers - starting with Freeman's Journal. This paper is included on IrishNewsArchives (pay) website, but the microfilms of this in the National Library of Ireland (Kildare St.) might be of better image quality. A death notice might give service & burial details.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Regarding the uncertainty over Thomas’s wife’s maiden name, statutory birth registration started in England in 1837, so if you get some of the birth certs for the children born after that, it should resolve her maiden name. It won’t help resolve where Thomas was born but may otherwise clarify that aspect of the family tree. (For example, Emma Lyons birth may be the one registered in Islington Apr – Jun 1839 Vol 3, page 161). 

Have you found a will for Thomas? It might just give clues about relatives in Ireland or elsewhere.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks for your comments.

Elwyn, that's a good suggestion about the later children's birth certificates.

No, I haven't found a will for Thomas, but I think there should be one somewhere.

I found a few death notices in the papers, but they didn't give any details on service or burial. The children in London were all christened in protestant churches, so I am thinking it more likely he was treated as Church of Ireland, but I'm not familiar with the Irish church system.

Thanks for the background on the cemeteries usage in Dublin. I can't find Thomas on any of the headstone indexes.

 

IrelandXO member

UK GRO Index shows the mother's maiden surname for the birth Elwyn mentioned in Islington district as Cunningham :

Lyons Emma / Cunningham
GRO Reference: 1839  J Quarter
Islington Reg. District
Volume 03  / Page 161

FamilySearch shows a probable marriage of the couple in November 1823 at Saint Saviour, Southwark

I think Mount Jerome is the most likely so definitely worth checking with them in case the burial was there.  There are microfilms of their records from 1836 in the Dublin City Library , Pearse St. Dublin City.

shanew147IrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks, shanew147. It sounds as though Mount Jerome Cemetery records would be a good use of time. I'll follow that up. Thanks also for the birth index record. I was not aware that mother's maiden name was available on these early ones. Yes, the marriage at Saint Saviour is theirs.

IrelandXO member

Hi jwsailwalk

I saw this post on a search I was doing on Thomas Lyons.  He is my 2nd Great Grandfather ( aka Great-Great Grandfather).

His second son Edmund ( b.1827) migrated to Melbourne, Australia.  

Any further success on Thomas ?  Would love to share any information and records I have.

regards

David

IrelandXO member

Hi David, I did find where he was buried and his Dublin address at the time (a hotel from memory), but it didn't shed any light on his ancestry. I haven't done any more looking for a will as I am currently researching other lines. I have recently done DNA and put my results onto Gedmatch, but haven't done searching there yet. Are you on any Facebook genealogy groups? Perhaps we could exchange messages there. I have done lots of research also, especially on Australian Lyonses.

Cheers, Jane

 

IrelandXO member

Hi Jane,thanks for replying.  The only site I am on is Ancestry.  I am on FB, if you suggest a genealogy group we could exchange details.  I have also done DNA on Ancestry, waiting for results.

Did you confirm Thomas' wife details?  He married Mary Ann Cunningham in 1823.  

Would love to hear more.

regards

David

 

 

IrelandXO member

Hi David, 

It might be simplest if you just send me your email address in a message (on Messenger) and we can exchange information.   Jane

 

 

 

 

IrelandXO member

Hi David, I realised that won’t work. How about you join the Victoria AU Genealogy Facebook Group. Then we can exchange information. Cheers, Jane

IrelandXO member

Hi Jane - OK have applied to join the page.  cheer David

IrelandXO member

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