Seeking Joyce/Lovelock information

Hi Jim,

 

You can add in another two siblings, Harriet born 1857, Co. Limerick and Catherine born 1858 Co. Kildare.

 

Brendan

www.researchireland.com

Hi Brendan

Thanks so much for that information. I checked it out the best I could and indeed the information seems to be valid. The conbination of mother and father names (especially Harriet Lovelock) convinced me. It is surprising to my wife because the family lore, although sketchy, suggested that they were lifelong residents of Dublin. Perhaps while the husband was in the army, the mother stayed with relatives. I also found a burial record for child Harriet- it's suspicious because the age of death (7 in 1868) does not exactly agree with her birthdate (1857). However the location is reasonable (Kildare). Again, many thanks for your information.

I see yo are a professional genealogist. My ancestors came to Canada from Donegal in the 1840s and I am researching them as well. I will keep you in mind if we need any onsite help.

Jim Carscadden

Hi Brendan

Thanks so much for that information. I checked it out the best I could and indeed the information seems to be valid. The conbination of mother and father names (especially Harriet Lovelock) convinced me. It is surprising to my wife because the family lore, although sketchy, suggested that they were lifelong residents of Dublin. Perhaps while the husband was in the army, the mother stayed with relatives. I also found a burial record for child Harriet- it's suspicious because the age of death (7 in 1868) does not exactly agree with her birthdate (1857). However the location is reasonable (Kildare). Again, many thanks for your information.

I see yo are a professional genealogist. My ancestors came to Canada from Donegal in the 1840s and I am researching them as well. I will keep you in mind if we need any onsite help.

Jim Carscadden

Hi Jim,

 

I believe that William Joyce was born in Galway and may have served in the British army in Canada.

You can order his army service record from London, it costs £30 and takes about 6 weeks, it will list all his children.

 

Brendan

Thanks again, Brendan. I am using Findmypast website to look at British army records. I had found nothing previously but I have started looking again after this last hint. I have looked at one record and found some confusion on the website (I have reported it to them) and now will look more closely at the original records rather than rely on their transcription. Lesson learned. The one record I examined shows a William Joyce from Galway, and has dates that make sense with other events as well as the correct regiment. This one served in Malta and Crimea but no record of being in Canada. I will keep looking and let you know what I find.

Cheers

Jim

Hi Jim,

 

Canada, British Army Regimental Rolls of Non-commissioned Officers and Soldiers, 1806-1892
about William Joyce

Name:William Joyce

Birth Year:abt 1828

Birth Place:Amadan, Galway

Age at Attestation:19

Attestation Date:5 May 1847

Attestation Place:Galway

Regimental Number:2598

 

Brendan

Hi Brendan

Thanks you again for the info on William Joyce. I found the original source you cited and compared it to discharge papers I found and they are one and the same person. I have compiled the basic information I have at hand in a word doc and will attach it. There are a few inconsistencies that I will highlight and ask your opinion as a professional in the field and as a native of the country.

My wife and I suspect that it may have been unusual for the family to have moved around the country with small children during the mid 1800s. For example, Mary Anne baptised in Dublin, then Harriet in Limerick and then one year later, Catherine in Kildare and finally some years later, Patrick in Dublin. I know Kildare is pretty close to Dublin and in fact, the Harriet we found was buried in Kildare as well. There a few oddities about the Harriet burial eg. her cited age at burial compared to her birthdate and her burial in a CI cemetery ( I did add some notes that I had found on an Irish genealogy website).

In William's 1868  discharge papers, he is listed as a shoemaker and says he intends to return to Galway. Two years later, William's son Patrick is born is born in Dublin and William's occupation is listed as a railway messenger.

I can speculate on several reasons why these inconsistencies may exist in these records but they would be speculations only. I know the records are consistent in many other regards (eg. the names of both parents on baptism records agree and Harriet seems to be less common than other female names) so maybe we have the correct persons and such inconsistencies are not unusual. I would welcome your opinion. I will consider getting William's military records, especially if they contain children's names.

If the daughters that survived eventually married, we have no know information on that. These names seem common but do you think further research is worth pursuing? Is it likely that any marriage and/or death/burial  records would be available and easy to find? Likewise, if William was born in 1828 as it seems, what is the likelihood of finding records of his parents and siblings?

Just want to emphasize again how muchIi appreciate your help and opinions.

Cheers

Jim Carscadden

 

Hi Jim,

 

You said he was discharged 1868, he was stationed in different army barracks, the children were born where he was stationed. His service record will record where he was stationed in different years. One of his sponsors was Nettherfield / Netterfield Davis, he also served in the army, he was also born in Galway.

Joyce is a very common Galway surname, his next of kin will be recorded on his record as will details of his marriage. It looks like he served in Canada, did his wife and children also travel?

 

From the gaps in the children's birth years, there may be more children.

 

On William's enlistment record he was recorded as 5ft 8ins, a shoemaker from Annaghdown which is on the Clare / Galway border. He enlisted in Galway.

 

William's father was William Joyce Esq, he lived in the townland of Cregduff, Annaghdown.

 

The following record is quite faint, he held 30 acres, I am unsure of William's religion, he may have been Church of Ireland.

 

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587398/00…

 

Brendan

Hi Jim,

 

William Joyce Esquire is deceased by 1855, his son Patrick has taken over, he is recorded in Cloonleenaun, Annaghdown

Annaghdown parish records are online, it looks like your Joyce family were the only Jpyce family in Annaghdown.

 

http://galwaywest.rootsireland.ie/

 

You register for free, you can search the index for free, select Annaghdown from the drop down parish list, there was a Patrick born 1858, father was not William or Patrick, probably another brother to William and Patrick.

 

There is a Michael listed 1901 census, he is the grandson of William Joyce Esq

 

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Annaghdown/Cloo…

 

Brendan

Hi Brendan

You are fast and no surprise to me, you know your way around the Irish records.

Regarding gaps in the records especially after he transferred to the other battalion in 1857. He spent between 9 and 10 years in Malta and Gibraltar, according to his discharge records. Not sure if he would have home leave during that time. He was discharged in 1868. so that may well explain the gap. Again I guess it will be off to the military records!

Did the family travel with him? Not sure whether that would be common. I wondered if his wife went with relatives while he was stationed elsewhere but I have no info on her origins.

It looks more and more that the military records contain his life story and we definitely need to get them, especially if there are marriage records as well. Would marriage records be there if they were married before he enlisted?

Getting back to the question of marriage of the daughters- sisters of Patrick, born 1870, who started all of these enquiries. Presumably the original marriage records would include parents names. I don't know anything about Irish marriage records. Are they digitised and searchable with a computer or does one have to have some basic info and go direct to the parishes?

I belong to rootsireland so will look up what you have sent. Haven't had time- you are too fast!

Thanks again

Jim

 

 

 

Hi Jim,

 

From my experience they did travel with him, I presume the children would have married in Dublin, William was living in Dublin when they reached marriage age.

 

Brendan

Hi Brendan

We know that Patrick, my wife's grandfather, was Catholic when he came to Newfoundland. All those sisters were baptised Catholic but of course, the Williams could have been CI.

I suppose that is a reasonable assumption regarding marriages of the children.

I have not seen many marruage records online. Does that mean they have to be searched in person with some clues as to parish or am I just not seeing such info online?

Jim