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Thomson Family (Annaghmore and other places)

DownMagheradrool (Down)

I'm reposting this as I had previously posted in an incorrect Parish.

Hi,

Hoping someone can help me out a little. I'm doing the genealogy thing, and I've hit something of a brick wall.

I'm looking for my fathers ancestors, I've found plenty of them based on family lore, which fortunately contains a few members who these days might be called celebrities, and so there is not a shortage of information about them specifically and more broadly their direct family members.

What I am struggling to find it the specific ancestry that links my father to the family.

As I have it set at this stage, I am looking for information about "Hugh Stitt Thomson" B1808 at Annaghmore. I believe he is the son of Robert Thomson who was the Brother of James Thomson (Prof at Belfast & Glasgow Universities) and an uncle of William Thomson Lord Kelvin. Because of this latter link, there is a wealth of information online about family, and there is mention of "Hugh" working on the family farm for Robert, but that is where the information ends for this line.

There are vague references to Hugh's wife dying by no mention of her name or of the children they had (if any).

Dad's grandfather was called Hugh Charles, we understand he was born in County Down, Ireland about 1850ish, but emigrated to Australia, then New Zealand in about 1880. I can find no record at all of his birth using that name, assuming Hugh Stitt is his father (perhaps this isn't accurate?) or indeed no record of his birth at all.

Anyways, I understand and have found information suggesting the family are certainly well known in the area, My search suggests the 'Stitt' bit of Hugh's name is his mothers maiden name.

Hoping someone can help, I also know there is reference to a place called Ballynahinch, but I couldn't find that anywhere on this site as an area. Please get in touch if you know more about the family and can help me clarify whether I'm on the right, or entirely wrong, path.

Thanks in advance. Michael

michaelryantho…

7 replies

Michael,

You say you can’t find Ballynahinch on this site. The site uses parishes as a method of identifying the area where people lived. There’s no parish called Ballynahinch. Ballynahinch is a small market town in Co Down, about 25 miles south east of Belfast. It’s in the parish of Magheradrool. So you are on the right board now.

You say you have been unable to find Hugh Charles Thomson’s birth in the 1850s. Statutory birth registration only began in Ireland in 1864. So you won’t find a birth certificate for him. Prior to that you are reliant on church baptism records, not all of which have survived and not all of which are on-line. The best collection of baptism records for the Magheradrool area is in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. But they are not on-line. A personal visit is required to view them.

You haven’t said what denomination the Thomson family was. If Church of Ireland then the early Magheradrool records were destroyed in the 1922 fire in Dublin and they now have nothing earlier than 1879. Ballynahinch 1st Presbyterian records start in 1841, Ballynahinch 2nd Presbyterians in 1829 & Ballynahinch 3rd Presbyterians in 1820. There is also a Presbyterian church in Spa with records from 1880. The RC records start in 1827.  The RC records are on-line on the NLI site. For the others a trip to PRONI is probably required.

Thomson is a very common surname in Co Down which will make the search harder. Here’s a link to a Co. Down site which lists a number of Hugh Thomsons, several in the Magheradrool area. Though you have middle names for some of your ancestors, in practice few people in Ireland in the 1800s used middle names, and most official records just have a forename and surname.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erosdavies/SURNAMES/T/ThompsonAI.htm

Wikipedia says that James Thomson was born in Annaghmore, near Ballynahinch, in a house later known as Spamount. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Thomson_(mathematician)

The family appear to have been Presbyterian since young James aspired to be a Presbyterian Minister. There’s a reference to the family featuring in Ballynahinch Presbyterian church records. I take that to mean Ballynahinch 1st Presbyterian:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erosdavies/PLACENAMES/A.htm

Spamount is also mentioned here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erosdavies/PLACENAMES/S.htm

You can see where Spamount is on Griffiths Valuation. It was plot 25a in the townland of Ballymaglave South. By 1863 the tenant was John Irvine. There are a couple of Thomsons living nearby but whether they are related to your family I can’t say with it being a common surname in the area.

Spamount is very close to Spa Presbyterian church but it only opened in 1871 so prior to that the family are likely to have attended Ballynahinch.

You could try contacting the Minister at Ballynahinch 1st Presbyterian to see if he can assist. There are obviously no baptism records prior to 1841 but with the family being famous, they might have a little more information.  

http://www.firstchurch.co.uk/www.first-church.co.uk/info.php?p=2

 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you Elwyn for that detailed and helpful reply, much of those links I have seen, but a couple not so I will explore my way through those.

I think the assumption would be right, it seems family correspondences confirm the assumption also.

I was aware also of the farm name, though had failed to find any references to them other than letters, so thank you again for the link to that - more exploration to do. I believe the Hugh moved from there to another farm in a place called Ballygoskin as latter letters talk about this place, but again that is the only reference I could find, and I'm not sure where this was exactly either.

I've had no luck looking here in NZ through the immigration archives to find a record for HC's arrival, I've not seen any immigration/emmigration records for Ireland, do you know by chance if they exist?

PRONI wasn't much use to me, I found nothing there that was helpful and as you say it probably necessitates a visit in person, which isn't likely to happen any time soon given I'm on the other side of the world. I did think about using one of their researchers which may be my last option, though given what you say about birth records there may be little merit.

Final question, do you know about marriage records, I've been unable to find an official record for a marriage for Hugh Stitt Thomson, reading a little between the lines in these letters I think he was married at least twice, once I think early in life and then quite a little later - would marriage records be held somewhere? I don't the BDM site, and all the usual places with no luck - any recommendations appreciated.

Again, and in conclusion thank you for your advice, information and wisdom, I will certainly be looking through the links you've given.

Warm regards, Michael

michaelryantho…

Michael,

Ballygoskin is a townland near Killyleagh. Griffiths Valuation for 1863 lists Hugh S. Thompson there. He had plot 3 which was a total of about 11 acres. He owned it outright (“in fee’) which was fairly unusual for the time. That farm today is on the Derryboy Road, near it’s junction with the Holly Park Rd. Hugh was there till 1882 when he was replaced by John Shaw.

You ask about emigration records from Ireland. There are none. The authorities had no reason to compile records of those leaving and didn’t. A few shipping agents kept records for their own commercial purposes, but these don’t amount to a significant resource. There were some direct ships from Ireland to Australia and New Zealand but not that many. Most passengers went via a port in Britain eg Plymouth, Southampton, Liverpool or Tilbury.

Regarding Hugh Stitt Thompson’s marriages, marriages after 1.4.1845 are on-line on the GRONI site. You can view the original certificates on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate. Ballygoskin & Ballymaglave both fall within Downpatrick registration district, if that helps narrow the search.

Prior to April 1845 you need to search church records in PRONI. And you would need to have an idea of where the marriage took place to narrow the search. Some pre 1845 marriages are on the Rootsireland site (subscription) but they don’t have them all. A problem you may face is that not all the indexes show middle names, so you’ll just be searching for Hugh Thompson, and that’s quite a common name.

 

 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you again Elwyn, that is most helpful and I'll make a start on those.

I don't suppose you would have a link to a map where I could find there places, no amount of google seems to show me anything relevant to that period, I'd be keen to know where this 'spamount' actually is (was?), it appears it was still there in the 1960s so perhaps it still is, would be interested to see how the family started out from what I'm guessing will be a very humble start.

I will go back to the PRONI and other site you mention and try them again, I really wish I'd done all this when I actually lived over in the UK, it would have been a very much simpler exercise.

Thank you again for your terrific help, suggestions and knowledge sharing, simply awesome.

M

michaelryantho…

Michael,

Googling townlands often fails to find them because they are too small to merit a mention. These are often places with 10 or 20 houses, and unless anything significant happened there, probably are below Google’s radar.

Spamount is in Ballymaglave South. You can see where the places are by using the maps on the Griffiths Valuation site: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

Search under “Griffiths places” and enter the townland. There is a slider bar in the top right handside of the maps screen which enables you to switch from the contemporaneous map to a modern one. Spamount is still in existence today. You can view it on Google Earth. It appears to still be a farm and I can see a white car and a red car parked at the rear in the Google Earth image. Access is up a lane from Dunmore Rd.

With PRONI, the thing to remember is that only a few of their records are on-line eg the Valuation Revision books and some wills. The majority of their records are held in paper or microfilm format and a personal visit is required to view them. All you can do on-line is search the indexes to see if they hold anything. One document there you may be interested in is D2672/1/27, dated Aug 1881, described as:

“Landed Estates court rental, maps and particulars of sale of [part of] the estate of Alice Mulholland, John Mulholland, William Mulholland, Thomas Taylor and Hugh Thompson. Lands 43a 1r 7p Ballygoskin, Co. Down”.

The date of the land sale ties in with the change of owner that I mentioned in the Valuation Revision records. You can e-mail PRONI and they will normally copy a document  for you (for a fee).

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you Elwyn and Theresa, again very helpful. I managed to find what I assume to be this property in 'ballygoskin', it pretty much looks now to just be some empty fields, but what I did notice when I looked harder at these maps is these 'places' are seemingly roads/streets rather than towns, which seems to suggest Hugh didn't move around terribly much but rather seemed to go from one farmlet to another.

I've googled the hell out of the name Spamount without any joy, so I'll see if I have any further luck with your recommendation these, again, thank you :) I did find this one using the overlay map you suggested, but I haven't found any sort of index that tells me which property is this Spamount. I had held out hope it may have one of those blue discs saying 'so and so born here' and I've tried those sites also. Anyhoo, I'll have a go as you suggest.

I have emailed the local reverend as you suggested, but he has replied to say he is no longer in that area, so I'm waiting to see if my request for a local contact gets a reply.

The house/farm whatever is really still secondary to trying to trace whether the family mythology is accurate, I'm still looking for this missing link between Hugh Charles and (probably) Hugh S and Robert - as you've suggested I may never find them because they may not have existed given the times, but you've given me awesome advice and suggestions on where to look and research next.

Michael

michaelryantho…

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