McBrides in Middletown

Elwyn,

Thank you for the information. I did search for a Maurice McBride via Ancestry, and it spells the place differently (no "w"). Not sure if they are two different places or not. If they are, then it sets me back a space. If not, maybe this will be my lucky day.

This is what Ancestry had:

Maurice Bride Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 birth: 1820 death: 1875 Middleton, Ireland NameMaurice Bride Event TypeDeath Event Date1875 Event PlaceMiddleton, Ireland Registration Quarter and Year1875 Registration DistrictMiddleton Age55 Birth Year (Estimated)1820 Mother's Maiden Name Volume Number14 Page Number440 GS Film number101587 Digital Folder Number00420  (Note that the name does not match precisely.)

There is a Maurice McBride listed in the 1830 Tithe Applotment books for the parish of Tullaghobegly  "MCBRIDE Maurice, Knockastolla". If my map is working right, that place is about 2 miles from Middletown, and this is the only Maurice I've found close to Middletown. Other than Mr. Bride, above.

If your info is different than what I'm seeing on the Civil Registration Index, yes, please do send it along. I'd be very grateful for it. I'm going to write off for the one above, and might as well request any others that could be possible.

There aren't very many Maurice McBrides in the records, so presumably at least one of them has a chance of being him.  The place (Middletown/ton) was named by a person who was giving a deposition in a US Civil War widow's petition for a pension for Maggie. The person says she knew Maggie when she was in Middletown. That could, of course, mean that the person making the statement lived in Middletown, not Maggie. Or that could have been the family home. I have no other information as to where Maggie and family lived prior to 1870, when I find her in a US Census, and later I find her brother in another. Their time in ireland is a complete blank.

Thanks for your help! - Nan

Hi Elwyn.

Obviously I do have the two mixed up, thanks for sorting it out for me. I'll write off for the Glenties two and will see what I can sort out.  It's interesting, in all my years of doing research, I have rarely run across any "Maurice" names. I have found a few in Donegal, but they are well down the years from when my Maurice must have lived. I have to think that they are related someway.

Ancestry isn't giving me much on Middletown, I'm afraid. Not for Maurice, anyway. From what I can tell it was always a small place, so I'm thinking that almost anyone named McBride from there in that era stands a good chance to be a relative of one degree or another. I'll poke around what I can find online for Glenties. I am not thinking this family was well off, as Maggie was illiterate and had to be taught to write her name by her husband when she married.

Thank you for all your help, and the links.

Best wishes,

Nan

Elwyn,

Just a thought. The document I'm looking at, from the US Civil War widow's pension application, is written by a lawyer taking down the oral deposition from the woman who knew my great-grandmother when they both lived in Ireland. It's all hand-written and is a bit hard to make out, but it appears that the question put to her was "Where did you know her in Ireland?" And the answer was "When I lived in Middletown."  So I assumed my ggrandmother lived in Middletown, but it also could mean that it was only the witness to the case lived there -  not, necessarily, Maggie and her family (i.e., Maurice McBride and Mary Dugan). They could have lived somewhere nearby, possibly? Or Maggie could have been there on her own - as a servant or ?.  

There is no other mention of a possible hometown for Maggie in the pages and pages of hand-written papers. Other records just state "Ireland."  The pension witness talks about how Maggie was always known by that name, and that was what her parents called her all her life, so I am assuming that she knew the whole family. That leads me to think they lived close to, if not in, Middletown. (The pension office was challenging her identity, as some of her records had her listed as "Mary" -  it was very common in that era to have an employer call an Irish domestic worker as "Mary," regardless of her real name.) Her brother's sworn statement only says he's from Donegal.

The woman giving the deposition also says she knew Maggie very well "in Ireland." Do you have any sense of how far people traveled in those days?  I know that in parts of the UK it wasn't all that unusual for people to walk great distances to visit relatives or friends in the 1800s. Would that have been the case as well in Ireland in Donegal in the 1850s/1860s, do you think? If so, that could push the hunt for Maurice farther away from Middletown. (Of course, it's also possible that this woman had never laid eyes on Maggie before she needed the deposition, but was just a friend helping her. Maggie was a widow with two young children and no income, and on really hard times.)

I think that, without running across someone else who has more information than I do, I'm not going to have much luck finding Maurice. I've got a half-dozen "could-be" cases, but no way to pin them down.  My next avenue is to try again to see if Maggie's brother, James, ever filed for citizenship here.  I don't know that he did - a lot of people did not, as it cost some money and was really of no huge benefit to them at the time. This is going to be like finding a needle in a haystack - it's an amazingly common name and I don't have a date of their arrival. I know for sure she was here in 1870, If they were born +/- 1850 you'd think I could narrow down the arrival year as the ships' manifests give peoples names and ages. But with just a name and "New York", there are dozens of possibles on the manifests I find, and there could well be manifests not in the archives at all. And I am only assuming they came in through New York. James said in the deposition that he and his sister had traveled together. Which helps a tiny bit - I've found a handful of Maggie and Jame McBrides together on ships' manifests, but no other info than "from Ireland".  Which pretty much negates their use even if the ages are close - the pairs could be from anywhere in Ireland.  But if I can find his emmigration year, that might help find him in the naturalization record. IF there is one I might get lucky  and a more precise place of birth. But I'm not overly hopeful.

So, by any chance, do you know if there would have been records kept in Ireland of the names of people who were leaving?  If someone was leaving from Donegal, would they be more likely to travel to Scotland or elsewhere in the UK to pick up a larger ship? I know a lot of people left from Cobh/Queenstown, but that's all the way down south. Could it have been easier for them to hop a smaller boat to catch the trans-Atlantic ship in the UK? If they left from the UK, I think they have better records than I'm finding here. It's worth a try to look through them, if you have any idea where the main port they'd probably have left from was. I could get lucky and find the pair of them, with a next of kin listed who was a Maurice. That would be unusual enough to make me think it was probably "my" Maurice McBride, especially if the range of years was close enough. It still won't be a certainty, but it'd be a better clue than I have so far. And I could hit the jackpot with a hometown listed.

I appreciate your help very much, so if you have any other ideas as to how I can find Maurice and family there in Donegal, I'd love to hear them.

Best - Nan

 

Hi

Middletown is a unofficial townland in the Parish of Gweedore. It is officially called Ardnagappery. There a McBride families still in Middletown and also a few yards away in the townland of Carrickastaskin. Maurice is a common name in the parish but more so with the McBride clan 

 

Hi. Haven't quite given up hope yet. I found the substitute census record for a Sarah McBride whose family in 1851 lived in Ardnagappary, and whose parents were Morris McBride and Bridget Doogan (or Dugan, sorry it's late at night and I'm tired). It lists her 1916 address as Magheralosk, Bunbeg.  I wonder, is that the name of an area, or of a specific house? I am assuming that Sarah never married, and if she might potentially still have been in the family home. Long shot, yes, but I thought I might ask if anyone could tell me about Magheralosk, since this is the first Morris McBride married to a Doogan in the right place at the right time that I've come across in years of searching. If it jogs any memories, my Maggie McB had a brother named James. She would have been born around 1847.  Thanks!

Hello Nan,

I have just come upon your post for the first time and while I may not be able to give you solid information that would advance your search, I can certainly give you some local knowledge.

First of all, a short geography lesson. The former civil parish of Tullaghobegly comprised the modern day parishes of Gaoth Dobhair (Gweedore) and Cloich Cheann Fhaola (Cloughaneely). One of the townlands in the Gaoth Dobhair parish is called Ard na gCeapairí (Ardnagappery), the historical name for the area and one that makes good sense. Unfortunately, the old names were not good enough for some people and the lovely Ard na gCeapairí turned into the horrible modern day Middletown. Therefore, Ardnagappery and Middletown are one and the same place, located in the parish of Gweedore and most certainly NOT near Dungloe. Cnoc an Stolaire (Knockastoller, Knockastolar etc.) is another townland in the parish of Gaoth Dobhair and it is located almost adjacent to Ard na gCeapairí. Although some of the people of Machaire Loisce  (Magheralosk) may take issue with the arrangement, that townland is sometimes recorded as a sub division of Cnoc an Stolaire. Therefore, Magheralosk is a townland in Gweedore, not far from Ardnagappery.

Mac Giolla Bhríde (McBride) is quite a common name in the area and Ó Dubhagáin (Dugan) is a little less common. When people’s names were Anglicised by the foreign invaders or as a result of emigration, names like Ó Dubhagáin took on different variants such as Dugan, Duggan, Doogan, Dougan etc.

Unfortunately, the written records for the parish of Gaoth Dobhair are quite sparse and it is difficult to make definite connections with people who lived before the mid nineteenth century. However, Griffiths Valuation does list several Doogan and McBride families in Ardnagappery and I would be strongly of the opinion that your Mary Dugan is connected to one or more of these families. Your Magheralosk connection offers some hope and when I have a little more time I should be able to identify Sarah McBride and her possible present day connections. For now, other duties call.

Le dea-mhéin,

P.J. Ó Domhnaill.

Thank you, PJ. 

My strongest hunch is that Sarah McBride, daughter of Mary Dugan and Morris McBride, is the sister to my great-grandmother, Maggie McBride (and her brother James). I only recently located the gravesite for Maggie here in the States and am in the process of getting a marker for it (she died in 1925 and was placed in the unmarked grave of her first husband, who died in 1876).  Apparently times were hard for the family, because nobody seems to want to look back to it (or them). Understandable, but it means the past is forgotten and that's ~always~ a mistake.

Any information you can provide is helpful - the information you have already sent allows me to more concretely identify the areas where the family probably lived. I think my next task should be getting that death cert for the Morris/Maurice McBride who died in that area in the 1880s.  There was a gent by that name born in 1830, but since Sarah is listed as being born in 1846 that would have made Morris a bit precocious. I know that dates are botched badly in many records, but it seems the logical course to go with the other Morris, at first.

The only other bit of info I have is that the woman who stated in the Civil War Widow's Pension application that she knew Maggie in Middletown's name was Bridget McCluskey. It's only one short paragraph, written by the person taking the deposition, so there's not much there, but it corraborate's James McBride's statement that they came from Middletown.

Again, thanks.

Nan

 

Hello Nan. My Pc crashed and I can only log on from my phone for now. You can contact me on stolaire11@gmail.com

Sorry, I should have explained that 'stolaire' is P.J. Ó Domhnaill. I was unable to log on to my original account and had to register as a new user.

Anyway, I may have a small bit of information about the Maurice McBride that you found in the Tithe List. Nothing that will make a connection to your McBrides but maybe something to work on.

Hi. It's been a while, but...

I had planned to visit the area last year, but was unable to do so. I was not able to reconnect with PJ (Stolaire). My emails to him from last year last year have not been answered. In Googling, it very much appears that PJ has passed away suddenly in Dec 2017, if the online death announcements are to be taken at face value. I am heartbroken to not have had the chance to meet him in person, if this is the same PJ O'Donnell, and thank him for all his input. If anyone happens to read this and knows if Stolaire has, indeed, passed away, I would appreciate knowing that is the case.

I am continuing my research. I believe that Sarah McBride, who put in for the old age pension and listed her residence in 1841 as Ardnagappary, and whose address on the census substitute pulled in 1916 was Magheralosk, Bunbeg, may possibly have been living at the same place (as the 1830 Tithes lists for Maurice McBride (her father?).  Is there any way to pinpoint where the plot of land is on a map? He is listed as the third entry P153 here  http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625728/004625728_00100.pdf

And, if I've missed PJ, I will never find out what small bit of information he had about that Maurice.

Story of my life - I manage to miss people by a matter of months, so often....

 

Hi Elwyn,

Thanks for your message. That's the one thing I hadn't considered - a McBride marrying a McBride. So Sarah's asking for the census extract was in her maiden name. Which was the same as her married name. (Of course.)

Maurice's widow - I have her in one document with the name of Mary and another as Bridget. Confusing as heck, really.

I did keep some email from PJ O'Donnell. In one he states:

Rather than looking for Maurice McBride, I did a search for Bridget and have found a possible person of interest in Ardnagappery. In Griffiths Valuation, there are two plots of land side by side in Ardnagappery and they are eventually combined under one owner. In 1855, Plot 20 was in the name of Bridget McBride Junior and Plot 21 was in the name of John Doogan, who I am told, was married to a McBride. The two plots remained the same in the revisions of 1861 and ’64. However, in 1875, the two are combined under Charles McBride. I have attached a copy of how the names on the land changed, down until 1932 (Some names were difficult to decipher so I am not sure about them). This proves nothing but the Bridget McBride / Doogan connection is interesting.

Bridget McBride Junior would be too young to be the wife of your Maurice McBride as I think she died in 1885, aged 36 and unmarried. However, the fact that she had the ‘Junior’ designation would lead to a reasonable assumption that her mother was also called Bridget and this lady would be in the right time frame to be the wife of Maurice McBride. Bridget Junior and Charles are buried in the old Magheragallon Graveyard:

Old Magheragallon Graveyard

Bridget McBride from Carrickatoskin died August 1885 aged 36

Charles McBride from Carrickatoskin died November 1887 aged 52

The townland of Carrickatoskin is a sub-division of Ardnagappery and is probably the most likely birthplace of your Maurice McBride. These McBride and Doogan / Duggan families intermarried quite a lot and the name ‘Maurice’ was in the family. Another lady from the US appears to be researching the same extended family and she has a Charles McBride, born in 1817, who was from Ardnagappery and who had a son called Maurice, born 1862. Again, this Maurice would be born too late to be your Maurice. However, it may be that his father, Charles McBride, born 1817, could be a brother of your Maurice.

[edited for content]

There is a ruin of an old house in Ardnagappery where these McBrides were said to have lived and they have quite a few relatives in the area. If it was ten years earlier, there would be plenty of people with good knowledge but unfortunately, they are all gone now. There are still a couple of people that I would like to talk to so who knows?

According to [edited for privacy], these Ardnagappery McBrides had a connection through marriage with the Knockastoller McBrides but I do not know the details. I need to check with another local source before I can tell you for sure where in Knockastoller the Maurice McBride of the Tithe List was living but it should not be difficult to find that out. You mentioned the name ‘Timlin’ and that is the Gaeilge version of Timothy. The name ‘Manus’ that you mentioned earlier is also quite a common local name.  Incidentally, there is another Maurice McBride mentioned in the 1841/51 Census returns as being born in the adjoining townland of Meenanillar, so there may have been a few of them about.

And in one other:

I had also hoped to get more information about Maurice McBride of the Tithe List but unfortunately the man I had hoped would be helpful did not have any definite information. I have the Griffiths Valuation Revisions for Ard na gCeapairí, from about 1857 to 1932 (supplied by the same man) and I have compiled a list of the McBride and Doogan/Duggan entries for the townland. This list is somewhere on my new computer but the Windows 10 Search feature is completely useless and right now I cannot find the file but I will find it eventually. This list will not necessarily give you conclusive proof about anything but it will give good pointers about people of the same names that you are researching. As far as I can recall, there was a Sarah Doogan mentioned as having property in the townland and the map that accompanies Griffiths will allow us to pinpoint exactly where this Sarah lived. The land transfer from one generation to another can then be followed up and maybe connected to people who are alive today and related to Sarah.

Although The Great Famine was not so bad in Gaoth Dobhair as in other areas, there were several bad famines here over the following decades. There was a report compiled in 1858 called “Report from the Select Committee on Destitution (Gweedore and Cloughaneely)” and this report contains evidence from witnesses who visited houses in various townlands. One of the people who gave evidence was Hugh McBride who was a former bailiff for the landlord George Hill and he was asked about the use of seaweed as food in the area. He visited various houses in Ard na gCeapairí, including the home of Sarah Doogan but there is only a one line reference to Sarah, entry number 341: “Sarah Doogan, did she use it? – Yes”. This just places a Sarah Doogan in Ard na gCeapairí and she may or may not be one of the people you are researching, although I have a feeling that she is indeed one of your Duggan/Doogans.

 

The man I have referred to above regarding Maurice McBride is [edited for privacy] and he has gathered quite a lot of information from several elderly brothers who had a good knowledge of Machaire Loisce (Magheralosk). According to [edit], the McBrides lived at “tóin an bhaile” or the lower end of Machaire Loisce. As far as I can recall, [edit] said that this McBride had many daughters but I think that there was no information about sons. However, it is thought that at least some of the McBride families of Cnoc an Stolaire (Knockastoller), Machaire Loisce and Baile and Droichid (Ballindrait) are descended from this McBride line. Baile an Droichid is a more recent name for a part of Cnoc an Stolaire that is adjacent to the Clady River, near An Bun Beag (Bunbeg) and looking at the sequence of names listed in the Tithe List, I believe that the Maurice McBride named in the List lived in the area of Cnoc an Stolaire that is now known as Baile an Droichid. There were several McBride households in this area and some of them are still here. There were two related McBride families in the Cnoc an Stolaire – Baile an Droichid area and the name James or Séimí was common to both families. If the Maurice McBride of the Tithe List is your relative (and I could not be certain about that) then you will still have family in the area. One negative is that I have not found any evidence of the name Maurice being passed down through these families as you would have expected it to be.  As McBride name is very common in the area, I think that following the less common Doogan line may be more likely to yield positive results.

I am not positive that Sarah McBride is actually the daughter of the Maurice/Morris and Bridget Dugan who are the parents of my ggrandmother Maggie McB and her brother James. But that one document (the census extract) is the only document I have seen that has those names as parents on it in the immediate area, and is of the right vintage. So my gut instinct is that they are all the same family. Or, rather, would be if they were from anywhere else in the world. I get tremendously confused with Donegal genealogy. ;) 

I would assume that, either way, most of the McBrides in the general vicinity are potentially some variety of distant cousins of mine?  I have taken a couple of DNA tests, and everytime they revise/refine their results the bullseye moves more definitely over that area. It's really rather striking, and interesting how out of 16 great-grandparents, I seem to have gotten most of my DNA from Maggie McBride.

 

Again, thanks for all your help. I'll be investigating the sources you recommend.

 

Nan

Hi. It's been a while, but I have recently come across information that leads down a road I had not even considered.

Maurice McBride, Middletown, Farmer  1852 (death)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-994X-YTZJ?cc=3460908

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/701931#

Rapahoe Diocese - CHURCH OF IRELAND Public Record Office of Ireland Deceased - INDEX TO WILLS AND ADMINISTRATION BONDS

RIght name, right place, right time, wrong church!? ;)  Or maybe not.   Now that I've got someone of the same name in the right place at the right time in the index of administration bonds - does other paperwork actually still exist relating to them? An index implies that there's a stack of paperwork somewhere, usually.... Maybe? Possibly?

[Arrrrrrrgh! Of course they were.   ;)  ]

If the records had not been destroyed, does an entry in this index register mean that possibly Maurice had enough property to require a will? I note on the page that the word "bond" has been inserted. Was the family required to pay a fee for some reason?

On the good side, I can write off for a death certificate now that I have a year. Perhaps that might have some information? Next of kin might be listed?

Thanks for the reply Elwyn.

 

Bless you for all that!  :)

Well,  I'm out of luck then - death cert would be 1852, before records.

Still, that's the first correct name in precisely the "right" place, in a reasonable time frame....

I guess I'll have to leave it at that, for now.

 

Another longshot.  I was reminiscing, the other day, and remember (or think I remember) my father tellling me when I was a very young child that his grandmother's father had been a shoemaker.  I know that on the paternal line the gent was a leatherworker although not necessarily a shoemaker. I did some searches again online and came up with a Maurice McBride, Shoemaker, in Dungloe  at https://www.bobsgenealogy.com/iredata/donegal_data/Griff_Val/gv_by_pari… . I know that name is not uncommon, but wonder if Dungloe is anywhere close to Ardnagappary/Middletown?

I have based my searches on documents that said the place that Maggie and her brother James came from in Ireland was Middletown. Some of the records ask what the last place they'd lived in was, and they answered Middletown. They also state in some other legal documents that they were "from Middletown" so I'm thinking they probably were, but I guess it's possible that if anything happened to their parents they might have been living with relatives there, or they could have gone there to work from elsewhere, or....?'

Unlikely, but I'm looking at all options. Thanks!

 

 

the John Doogan mentioned above could be my GG_GF.

b. 1827. lived in Ard na gCeapairí