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CUNNINGHAM family in Londonderry

Derry

Hello

Relatives of mine, George and Matilda CUNNINGHAM (nee SCOTT), had four children baptised in the Carlisle Road Presbyterian Church in Londonberry, namely; John (1853), James (1855), Robert George (1857), and Mary Eliza (1859).

The recorded on the baptismal records were; 30 Bogside, Cowbay, No. 30 Cowbog, and 31 Lower Bog, respectively.

I suspect some of these addresses will be the same place. Can anyone tell me where these places are now in modern Londonderry as I would quite like to visit them when there in July.

Many thanks

Eric

Eric Walton

8 replies

Eric,

Griffiths Valuation of 1858 lists George Cunningham in Cow Bog. He had a house, office (outbuildings) and a yard. Cow Bog today is Waterloo St. Mostly pubs, shops and some residential accommodation above.

https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

In case you don’t have it, here’s the couple’s marriage in 1852. They married in 4th Derry Presbyterian, which was later renamed Carlisle Rd Presbyterian.:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1852/09433/5417493.pdf

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks, Elwyn. Much appreciated!

I do have the marriage record, but thank you. Good to know that the 4th Derry became Carlisle Road.

I tried using Griffith's Valuation on my direct line (Robert SCOTT), but not successful. According to baptismal records for his children in 1857,1859, and 1863, they lived in Bridge, Bridge, and Ferryquay Streets, respectively.

My working hypothesis is that Robert SCOTT and Matilda CUNNINGHAM (need SCOTT) are brother and sister. As yet, I don't know where either were born.

Kind regards

Eric

Eric Walton

Matilda Scott’s father Robert was a farmer, according to her marriage certificate. You don’t find farmers in the middle of a city, so I suspect she was probably born in Donegal or rural Co. Derry. Difficult to say without more information.

There’s only 1 Robert Scott in the 1831 census of Co Derry but he was Church of Ireland, whereas Matilda was evidently Presbyterian. So maybe she came from Donegal?

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Tirkeeran/Lower_Cumber/Ardground/13/

Who did Robert Scott junior marry?

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Elwyn

According to their New Zealand death certificates, Robert SCOTT junior (~1814-1890) is the son of Robert SCOTT (farmer) and Mary STEWART. He married Rebecca SCOTT (~1820-1906), the daughter of John SCOTT (manufacturer) and Matilda ALLISON.

Further (from their death certificates), Robert and Rebecca were both born in Londonderry, and were married in Curragh, Ireland in ~1839. Their first child, Joseph SCOTT, was supposed to be born in Castlefinn in 1844 but I have yet to find record of that. The next four children, Sarah, Rebecca, Stewart Allison, and Elizabeth, were baptised in Donaghmore Presbyterian Church in 1846, 1848, 1852, and 1854, respectively. Sequent children were baptised in the First Derry Presbyterian Church in Londonderry (and so my interest in Griffith's Valuation).

In terms of Curragh, there are two Curragh townlands in County Londonderry; one in the Civil Parish of Maghera (in the Registration District of Magherafelt) and the other in the Civil Parish of Macosquin (in the Registration District of Coleraine).  There is also Curragh townland in County Donegal in the Civil Parish of Leck (in the Registration District of Letterkenny). Currently trying to work out which Curragh, but my current hunch is the one in County Donegal, but this is a work in progress. This is largely due Rebecca's parents living in Raphoe, County Donegal at the time of their deaths. The death of Rebecca's mother (Matilda SCOTT) was recorded in Raphoe in County Donegal in 1872 (I believe the informant was her son, John SCOTT) and her the death of her father (John SCOTT) was reported in Raphoe in the Londonderry Standard in 1861.

In terms of Matilda CUNNINGHAM (nee SCOTT), (~1820-1894), the wife of George CUNNINGHAM, her Austalian death certificate (New South Wales) states her father in Robert SCOTT, a farmer, but the mother is Matilda, surname unknown.

As I said, my working hypothesis is that Robert SCOTT (~1814-1890) and Rebecca SCOTT (~1820-1906) are brother and sister (I have DNA matches to descendants of Robert in Australia).

Kind regards

Eric

Eric Walton

P.S. Do you know if there are records for the 'burying ground' in Raphoe?

Eric Walton

Eric,

There’s a gap in Donaghmore Presbyterian’s baptism records. They have baptisms 1804 - 1837 and then 1845 onwards. So if Joseph was baptised there in 1844, there is no record to find.

Regarding a possible marriage in Leck, the Church of Ireland lost it’s early records in the 1922 fire. None for the years when Robert & Rebecca probably married. Nearest Presbyterian churches appear to be 1st Letterkenny (no marriage records pre 1845); 2nd Letterkenny which has marriages 1821 - 1843. 3rd has nil pre 1845. Trenta has marriages 1838 onwards. 1st Raphoe Presbyterian has baptism and marriages from 1829 onwards. 2nd Raphoe has baptisms from 1860 and marriages from 1829. Copies of all in PRONI. Letterkenny (Conwal) Church of Ireland early records lost in the 1922 fire.

The Matilda Scott who died in Raphoe in 1872 was a married woman so John Scott who died in 1861 can’t be her husband.

Raphoe Church of Ireland cathedral has a graveyard. So possibly that’s where your Scott ancestors may be buried. It was common for Presbyterians to be buried in COI graveyards as many Presbyterian churches didn’t have their own. COI graveyards were open to all denominations. However the COI only kept records of their own denomination, so Presbyterians, Methodists, Catholics etc who might be buried there would not be in their records. 1st Raphoe Presbyterian also has a graveyard. Gravestone transcriptions from it are on the Findagrave site. No Scotts listed there.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Elwyn

Thanks again for your thoughts and suggestions; much appreciated!

Your explaination for not finding Joseph SCOTT's baptism in Donaghmore records in 1844 makes complete sense. However, I am a little confused as PRONI's Guide to Church Records says that they have Donaghmore Presbyterian baptismal records from 1835-1961.

Thanks for your suggestions about marriages in and around Leck. I have had someone check the Ist Raphoe Presbyterian for Robert and Rebecca's marriage, but no SCOTT marriages were found from 1837-1845. I will ask them to check the 2nd Rahoe Presbyterian and 2nd Letterkenny Presbyterian for me.

When I originally found Matilda SCOTT's death registratintion (9 November 1872), I too, thought her husband was still alive and went hunting high and low to find his death. I then happened upon a notice in the Londonderry Standard on 16 November, 1872, which said: Scott--November 9, at her son's residence, Raphoe, Matilda, wife of the late John Scott, aged 84 years. Given that, I am pretty sure that the John SCOTT death in 1861 is 'my' Matilda's husband.

It would be nice to know where John and Matilda are buried, but that does not look likely at this satge. However, I will visit Raphoe and the churches when I am in Ireland in July.

Thanks again for all your help.

KInd regards

Eric

Eric Walton

Eric,

My apologies. I looked at the wrong Donaghmore (there's another in Co. Down). I agree the Donegal Dobaghmore dies have records from 1834 onwards. In which case you have a choice between Minister forgot to include the entry, entry too faded to read, child baptised elsewhere for some reason, child baptised late and out of sequence. Those sorts of options.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

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