Katherine McSweeney

Hi Kathleen:  

we have a local volunteer in Mallow who may be able to add some information to your query. I have copied her with this post.  

Kind regards,  

Jane

 

Hello 

My name Donie O sullivan and I live in Glantane parish.The townland you mentioned is  spelled Knockdrislagh now and a family of Creans still live there. Their house played an important part in the Irish War of Independance  in 1920-1922 period.I looked up the parish baptism register and see a few children baptised to John Crean and Julia Connors , Hannah 22 nov.1891 and an Owen Sweeney was a sponsor, Margaret 12 March 1893 .I assume this was your grandmother, Patrick14 March 1894 and an Ellen Sweeney  was a sponsor. John Crean and Julia Sweeney were married on 6 March 1890.in Glantane Parish.witnesses were Owen Sweeney and  Hannah Connors. I would guess they married in Bweeng chapel in Glantane parish as that is nearest Knockdrialagh.

The o and the mac were generally not used during famine times and much of the late1800's  so Sweeney and MacSweeney would be similar.

John Crean was baptised on 17 May 1855 to Michael Crean and Hannah Sweeney and I assume this john is your great grandfather. John may have had siblings, Owen baptised 24.March 1850 to Michael Sweeney and Johanna Sweeney add Hannah  and Johanna  are probably the same person. A Denis  Sweeney was a sponsor..

Digest the above and contact me if anything arises.A question.Where are you living.?

Regards

Donie

 

Donie here again 

A further search reveals a Kate Sweeney baptised to Daniel sweeney and Catherine Hurley on 9th.Sept.1860. she had siblings -mary 1854,Ellen 1856,Jude 1858,Owen,1862 and Patrick 1866. One of above had an address as Knockdrishlagh.Hannah Crean and Denis Crean were sponsors for 2 of above so that should tie in these Sweeney and Crean families.

John Crean and Julia Connors were married in Kilpadder church  which was demolished and replaced in c 1970 by a new church in Drommahane village also in Glantane parish.It would appeaar that the baptisms were also in Kilpadder and  this was probably the church attended by the families.

Regards

Donie

 

 

Dear Donnie,

     Thank you so very much for all the information. Yes, lots to digest and right now my plate is quite full.  Little by little, I inch towards discovering just how I’m related to the elusive Auntie Kate McSweeney.  I feel there is a McSweeney/Sweeney relative out there that is the missing link.  

     One general question that I have is that I am so used to churches having  saints’ names, as in Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in New York or Saint Mary’s which seems to be the name of every other church in Ireland.  But you refer to “Glantane”.  Is that the name of the church, the area? It’s throwing me a bit.

     My last trip to Ireland was just a year ago and I did connect with cousins in Knockdrisheigh,  or now Knockdrislagh.  Can you tell me anything more about the Crean house during the War of Independence. A book, maybe.  There are quite a few American cousins who want to know more.  I was told once that the house was a hide out for men on the run.  And that my great aunt, Ellen Crean, helped them before she immigrated.  

     Everyone immigrated to Brooklyn.  Auntie Kate may have been the first as far as I can tell.  Brooklyn is my hometown though I live in Maryland now.  

     I will definitely be in touch as I “digest” all the new information.  This great mystery about Aunti Kate could have been so easily answered years ago.  But my own aunt told me : “Kathleen, we were taught not to ask.”  

     Thanks again!  -Kathleen Logue

 

 

 

Dear Donie,

     Sorry for the misspelling of your name.  I didn’t catch the spell check correction until after I hit “Send”.

 

Hello Kathleen.

The catholic parish is named Glantane which was spelled Glountane in the 1800's and contains 3 churches.The parish was known as Kilshannig Parish fron the 1100's until it became an Established Church of Ireland in 1581  following King Henry the eight's break away from Rome. Kilshannig Church and all churches ,cathedrals etc. were assumed into this breakaway religion and those not required were destroyed. The first catholic church built in this parish after penal times was in Glantane in 1821 and the catholic parish was resurrected and it was named Glantane Parish. Another chapel was built in Kilpadder townland near Drommahane village in c.1834 and the english translation for Kilpadder is Peters Church.this was deconsecrated in c.1969 and a new one built in Drommahane that is called St.Peters.The third chapel was built in Bweeng village in c.1845 and was named after St.Columba. I hope this clears up the geography of the area. you should be aware that all civil records for the parish up to 1922 are recorded under Kilshannig parish.While Catjolic parish records which begin in c.1828 are under Glantane.

A very useful resource on line is irishorigins.ie where civil records from 1864 are available free of charge.

Kate McSweeney-the kate I mentioned earlier seems to be the Kate you are researching .let me know if I can find out more for you.

I came acrossThe baptism of Bartholomew  Sweeney on 21 May  1890 toJohn Crean and Ellen Riordan with tim Riordan and Mary Creedon as witnesses.

Regards Donie

 

 

Dear Donie, Anne Marie, Jane and Roger,

     Thank you for all the very useful information concerning Auntie Kate.  It has filled in many a gap.  Some gaps I didn’t even know that I had.  After reading, and re-reading it all, it is very obvious to me that Auntie Kate’s family and the Crean family were very close.  What still eludes me however, is how the two families were related.  Maybe they weren’t related by blood but by the bonds of friendship that reached back generations.  (Don’t we all have an “aunt” who was not a blood relation?). Still, I will keep trying.

     Donie provided me with a name on the Crean side that had eluded me.  In listing my grandmother, Margaret Crean and her siblings, he referenced a “Patrick, March 14, 1894”.  First, since on several occasions you have listed sponsors, would March 14th then be Patrick’ s Baptismal date?  Margaret’s youngest sister was my Aunt Kathleen born in 1910.  On one of my visits to her years ago, Aunt Kathleen mentioned a brother who died in a “scalding incident” before she was born.  With a bit of sleuthing around on Ancestry, I discovered that Patrick died in June 1898.  I don’t know where he is buried or if there is a headstone.  But now I have a name for my great uncle.  

   So thank you again.  Don’t put my file away.  I’m sure that I’ll be back.  -Kathleen Logue

 

Hello Catherine

Tes.patrick died aged 4 in 1898 and his death cert states he died from a scald from hot water so the story is correct..Look into irishorigins.ie and search for patrick crean death and you will find his death cert there  The dates i gave were baptism dates.

In 1898 there was no cemetery in Glantane or Bweeng so burials would most likely be in Donoughmare, Kilshannig  or Abbeyswell and ,luckily, they are  all  recorded in full so i will check if anything turns up. 

regards

Donie

Dear Donie, Anne Marie, Jane and Roger,

 

     Greetings once more.  Again, thank you for all the information.  It slowly is coming together.  Still Auntie Kate proves elusive. 

 

     I received a letter from my 89 year old cousin in Mallow with a bit more news.  According to cousin Catherine (Horgan)  the four year old who died from the scalding hot water was named Denny (or Dennis).  To quote from Catherine's letter to me: "...In those days they had no electricity and everything was done on an open fire.  Having boiled a huge pot of stuff for animals, it was left at the end of the kitchen to cool and he accidentally fell into it...By the way, his name was Denny, not Patrick."  Catherine's mother was Kathleen Crean, Denny's sister who was born after his death.

 

     Catherine's first cousin is Norah Sheahan (nee Crean) and she indeed still lives in the house in Knockdrislagh.  Her mother was Han Crean (nee O'Sullivan, 1921-2016).   I visited the house one year ago.  Once more, I quote from Catherine's letter  "...Remember where Norah is living?  Her mother Han lived next door.  That is the house where Kate (McSweeney) was born.  Kate's brother Owen (1862-1949)  lived in that house, married and had two children, Dan and Mary Kate.  She died young.  Han and family were very good to Dan and he stayed with them for some time before he died.  In his will he left the house to Han..."

 

     Once more, I am hoping that you may be able to fill in the gaps to my cousin's story, if there are any.  Also, Donie mentioned that the house played a role in the War of Independence.  Can you tell me more?  My great aunt, as a child, remembered men being sheltered there as they were on the run.  

 

     That's it for now, as if that wasn't enough.  I am forever grateful.  

 

     -Kathleen Logue

hello Catherine

Back again.The child who died from boiling water was definitely Patrick and the cause is shown on his death cert.

If you look at John's baptism in 1855 you will see that his mother was Hannah  Sweeney.That ties in both names .

My memory is not great and I am assuming your Auntie Kate is a McSweeney which should place her as a relation to Hannah Sweeney and what information are you looking for regarding Auntie Kate ?.I seem to be missing something here.

Look up "lombardstown memory trail" on the internet and you can log into a map with numerous houses in the Bweeng Glantane and Lombardstown areas. I was involved in compiling this as a project centered arund the war of independance in that area.Click on the houses and a photo will appear with a very brief mention of that war.The Crean house in Knockdrislagh features in it  so keep checking the ones between Bweeng and Drommahane and you will find it..The house has been modernised beyond recognition and one of the crean live in it and the parents live beside it ie the Sheahans./Creans

Regards

Donie

 

’

Dear Donie,

 

     My most sincere thanks for all your research on my behalf.

     Concerning Patrick and the boiling water incident.  My cousin Catherine did admit that Denny (Dennis) may have been a middle name or a baptismal name.  There are some things we simply will never be sure about.

     Now to Auntie Kate (again),  I now know more than I ever did about this dear woman, once more, thank you.  I simply can not find exactly how we are related.  No doubt at all that we are but I feel as though I am missing a name somewhere along the way. When I review Aunti Kate’s family tree, I can not connect Auntie Kate to Hannah Sweeney.  There must be a common relative that ties us all together and that is what I am missing.  And I realize that I may never know.  Still, I try.  

     I did look up the Lombardstown Memory Trail and your work is impressive.  I wonder if all my Cork cousins even know this.  So I had a brush with greatness when I visited Lombardstown last year. Well, a brush almost one hundred years old.  

     Thank you again. Your research on my family’s behalf has been invaluable.  God bless you.

     -Kathleen Logue

Hello Kathleen.

I had a look for connection to your Aunt Kate Sweeney who seems to have married Michael Sweeney to hannah MCsweeney but failed.is it possible Kates father Daniel sweeney could be a brother to Hannah Sweeney who married Michael  Crean ?

Michael and Hannahs son John married Julia Connors 9th March 1890 and John was listed as farming in Glenogue which is an area bordering Knockdrislagh and they married in Kilpadder chapel which was deconsecrated and a new replacement built in Drommahane ,all in Glantane parish. There are a family of Creans still living in Glenogue.

A Michael Crean of Knockdrislagh died in 1888 with a Julia crean present who could not be johns wife as they married in 1890 .

A John Crean of Knockdrislagh  died 15th april 1895 aged 96 and his son Michael was present.  This poses some questions 

John ,born in 1855 had a father Michael so who was the 96 year old John and who was his son Michael.

Regards

Donie

I .

 came across this bit of information when searching for a death and it may be of interest to you.

29th May 1940 -a death notice for a Katie McSweeney of Knockdrislaught .Removal from Kilpadder Chapel to Newberry cemetery.

8th May 1960- a death notice for Kate McSweeney,Knockdrislaught.Relict of Eugene McSweeney.Removal from Kilpadder church to Newberry Cemetery.

Neither of above are on any headstone in Kilshannig cemetery but there are a few McSweeney headstones there .

Regards Donie

Donie O Sullivan

 

Hello There,

I'm wondering if any of the subscribers to this thread would know if any of the Sweeney/McSweeney families from Knockdrislagh are interred at Ballynamona Cemetery?  I'm trying to source information on my 2nd Great Grandfather John McSweeney who's father was stated as Denis McSweeney on his marriage certificate.

The best lead that  I have on my 2xGGF was that he might have came from the Bweeng area of North Cork, John died in Cork City aged about 38 years old in 1896, his funeral notice on the Cork Examiners stated that he was interred at Ballynamona,  unfortunately it's appears that burial records for this cemetery are not available.

I'd also be interested to know if any McSweeney/Sweeney decendants from any of the areas mentioned on this thread have submitted DNA to Ancestry or Gedmatch platforms?  

Regards Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ken,

 

     Sorry, all my McSweeney relatives are buried in the "Graveyard Bweeng" (as my cousin called it) next to Saint Columba's Church.  

 

     -Kathleen

 HI Kathleen,  

Thanks for getting back to me, it's good to know about the graveyard in Bweeng, I was thinking that Ballynamona might have been the closest burial ground to Bweeng considering they are so close geographically. I would also think that my 2nd GGF was most likely buried with his kin. 

However, i'm still very interested to know about possible DNA matches that are following this thread. I do have some common DNA matches on the Ancestry.com site that would appear to have shared ancestry with folk mentioned on this forum thread. The public ancestry tree for one such  DNA match tells me that the DNA sample for a user  K.L's  grandparents were Bartholomew McSweeney 1890 - 1967 and Margaret 'Madge' Crean 1893 - 1976.

Due to the lack of paper trail for my 2nd GFF, I would hope that DNA matches will eventually unlock the mystery as to where he came from and who his wider family were.  

Regards Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I seems that my file that I thought I had sent did not arrive so i will re send it again.

Donie

Hello Kathleen

Donie back again.I read your recent posts and did some more research .I looked at baptisms in Glantane parish for Sweeneys with childre named John and michael and found three as follows

1-John bapt.27.June 1830 to Edward and Catherine Scanlon - Michael bapt.on 2.Oct.1838.

2- John bapt.23.November 1861 to John and Ellen Crowley - Michael bapt.25.Sept 1860

3- John bapt. 19.Dec.1835 to John and margaret Connell - Michael bapt.16 July 1839.

Have a look at these but no proof if any is your side,however you may be able to fit one to your Sweeneys.

I note theat Catherine(Auntie Kate ) was baptised on 9th Sept.1860.

I made contact with a man from near Knockdrislagh and he gave me some information. 

The McSweeneys originated in the townland of Glenogue which is beside Knockdrislagh. The house is still standing but unoccupied and the last man to live there was a Jackie(John) Mcsweeney. Two of his sons have a plumbing business each ie John and Joe McSweeney. In fact John did some plumbing for me years ago.He also said that this family married into the Crean holding and are the McSweeneys you are tracing.he also informed me that an uncle of Jackie  married a Crean in England.

I asked about Ballinamona and he told me that some Creans are buried there ,unsure how but surmised that they may have originated  nearer there than Glantane parish. A Paddy McSweeney died in Carrigcleena near Knockdrislagh this year but he maintains they are not related as they came from the Ballinamona area originally.

I notice Ken mentioned Bweeng Cemetery. This opened in 1936 and before that people in that area were buried in Kilshannig , Donoughmore  or Abbeyswell cemeteries and very occasionally in other graveyards if their ancestors had grave plots there. I have headstone inscriptions for the 4 above graveyards but not for Ballinamona

Ken. Give me the info you have on your ancestors and I will search if I can add anything 

Regards

Donie

 

 

First to Ken...I am user KL on Ancestry.com.  (Kathleen Logue).  I will further research my McSweeney family tree.  I know that there is a Dennis and John in there somewhere.  

To Donnie, thank you again for the new information.  I have to sort it all out and make sense of it.  I visited Auntie Kate’s grave on September 1st and said a little prayer for her help with the family tree.  Maybe she heard me.

All the best to you both,  -Kathleen

 

 

And to Donie again.  Sorry about spell check insisting on adding another “n” to your name.  I must be more vigilant.    

Thanks Kathleen, any additional information that you can provide would be really appreciated!

Donie, I also appreciate any help and especailly local knowledge, for me North Cork research has been very hit and miss and also expensive when reliant on the RootsIreland platform, the parish registers on the NLI site are proving a tedius task to pour over. The only baptism that I could find  to fit his estimated birth year was for 1858 in Killavullen to Denis Sweeney & Catherine Fitzgerald.  

The information that I have on John McSweeney is very limited, I know that he married Ellen Burke from Ballymorrisheen in Grenagh parish church 26th February 1881, as mentioned above his father was stated to be Denis and the Witness to his wedding was a John Sheehan. At the time of his marriage his address was given as Great Britain Street now Great William O'Brien Street in Blackpool, Cork City, John was a Baker by trade and was said to have had a small bakery near Blackpool bridge.  John died in 1896 aged about 38 years, the Cork Examiner death notice states that his funeral was for 'Ballynamona' Cemetery. 

In regard to John's origin some members of the family would say Mourneabbey direction, another source from his wife's family had stated Bweeng.  Another peice of family lore that might be pertinent, was that he was apparently related to Morgan McSweeny, one of the attackers of Ballyknockane barracks during the failed fenian uprising of 1867, Morgan was transported to Freemantle, Australia but returned to Cork after being granted a free pardon in 1869 , my great-grandfather was said to have claimed that Morgan was John's brother but so far this has been unverified. 

That's all I know about the elusive John McSweeney,  at least the DNA match to Kathleen does provide some connection to the area. 

Any help on this brickwall is greatly appreciated. Ken

 

 

Dear Ken,

     I have hit many a brick wall myself, as evidenced in my continuing search for the elusive (or maybe evasive is the better word) Auntie Kate McSweeney (1860-1941).  

     I have looked up my John McSweeney and Denis McSweeney.  Unfortunately, they do not match yours.  I have a Denny McSweeney, brother  of the aforementioned Auntie Kate and nothing else on him.  Denis and Kate’s parents were Daniel McSweeney  and Catherine Hurley, no dates available..   And my John Sweeney was a great uncle, born and died in Glenogue, Kilshanning (1889-1943). His parents were John (1848-1908) and Ellen Riordan (1855-1902).

     To Donie, I’m still doing my homework and will be in touch after I review all the information you sent me.  

     Since we are a DNA match, Ken.  I suppose we are cousins, somehow.  

     All the best to you both,  -Kathleen

Dear Donie,

 

     When I visited Glenogue 2 years ago I saw my grandfather's house (Bartholomew Sweeney).  It has been abandoned for a number of years.  The briers and thorns were so thick that I could not get close to it.  There was a stone column where I was standing, possibly all that is left of a gate.  I patted it and said a prayer for Grandpa.  

 

     The John and Michael Sweeney possibilities that you mention are not in my records.  That's not to say that I am not related.  My own records are very sketchy for the 1860's and further back.  But all that could change as I continue my research.  

 

     Again, thank you for your continued support.  One never knows what new hint is just around the corner.

 

     -Kathleen

 

Back again, but with a more general question.  In doing my research, I have come across the name "Jude" several times.  But I can not ascertain if Jude is a male or a female, as in Judith.  Once more, thanks for your help.

-Kathleen Logue

 

Hi Kathleen:

I would consider Jude to be a female name, as Jude is a rare male name for Irish families.  I have had a look out of interest at the Irish Genealogy website for the first name of Jude and it appears to be very much a female name, however what is particularly interesting is that this name "Jude" is very commonly noted in the Kerry area and specifically Cahirciveen (118 entries) Kenmare (34) and Tralee ( 90).  It is noted in other areas, but not in such high numbers.  

 

Good luck with your research!

All the best,

 

Jane

 

 

Dear Jane,

     Thank you for clearing that up as there had been a lot of discussion in the family about the name Jude.  Mostly from my brother in law who has Jude as his middle name.  

     I have one more question, for the moment.  Again, in researching the census records,  I have come across the term "kept by sister".  I can not recall if that was in answer to employment or how one was related to the head of the family.  It was only later that I wondered about the term but by then I could not remember which census record I saw it on.  But I did see it several times.  

     Once more, thank you for the assistance you provide.  One thing is certain, the questions never end.  

     -Kathleen Logue

Hello All

I have never come across that term but have experfienced such situations. to me the most likely situation to arise is where a daughter marries into another home and when the brother at home gets married the unmarried sister there would move out and live with her married sister. two women in the same kitchen seldom works out and believe it or not a similar situation would arise where the mother and the daughter in law would be sharing and in the old days there were access rights ,enshrined in law, to force the pair to share harmoniously.

Regarding Jude it is generally more a female name although some males also had it.

donie

 

Happy Easter to All!

 

     Kathleen here.  Still on the trail of Katherine McSweeney.  I took a break from my research for Lent.  Auntie Kate was driving me mad and the dear woman has been dead for almost 80 years.  

I am trying a different approach now.  My great great grandmother was Johannah

McSweeney, AKA Hannah Sweeney.  Her parents were John Sweeney and Mary Quin. (No dates available)  Johannah was baptized on October 25, 1830 in Glantane, Cork.  Johannah was married to Michael Crean.  (Again, no dates available).  Their children were Owen, born in 1850, no death date: John, (my great grandfather) born 1855, died 1945 and a Denis and Julia, no dates at all on either one of them.  There may have been other children unknown to me.  

Can you research if Johannah had siblings?  I thought that I might possibly link a sibling name with all my other research, ultimately leading me to Auntie Kate.

Then I'll leave you alone , maybe, for a little while or until my next question.  Seriously, thank you for ALL your help over the last few years.  I would never have gotten as far as I am in my research without you.  And sometimes, a bit of humor helps.  

Lent is over.  I'm quarantined and hot on Auntie Kate's trail once more.

 Thanks again!  -Kathleen Logue

 

 

 

Hi my name is Diane and my maiden name was mcsweeney my grandfather was Peter mcsweeney and his father was called Patrick mcsweeney and he was from cork in Ireland

Dear Diane,

     In all my research, I have not come across a Peter or Patrick McSweeney.  My grandfather, Bartholomew McSweeny, AKA Bat Sweeney,  was born in 1890 and immigrated in 1910 to Brooklyn, New York.  Auntie Kate McSweeney was born in 1860, immigrated in the early 1880's and lived the rest of her days in Brooklyn.  If you have a few more family names, I'll see if I have them too.

All the best,  -Kathleen

 

From Donie O Sullivan

Following kathleen's  contact I had a look for John McSweeney and I enclose a few images

Hi Donie,

Thanks for taking the time to look but I already had those documents. I'm not sure if I mentioned already in this thread but the only other lead that might connect to John was a baptism record in Kilavullen in 1858, parents listed were Denis McSweeney and Catherine Fitzgerald. The year of baptism would tie in with John's age who was 38 when he died in 1896 but i've got no other supporting documentation to prove this.  

I'm not really sure about the geography of the area or how the (Mc)Sweeney's connected to  Bweeng, Knockdrislagh or Ballinmona or if they connected to Killavullen but the fact that John was buried in Ballinmona would lead me to think he had some family connection to that area, unfortunatley i've been told burial registers for that cemetery don't exist, it was up to the family to know where there plot was.  

Thanks again for your time, i'd love to hear from you should anythign else turn up

Ken

 

 

ken

The geography of the parishes is that Ballinamona parish is now the catholic parish of Mourne Abbey and Kilshannig (Glantane) parish is immediately west of this and Killavullen parish joins it in the  north east.Glantane is about 7 miles to Burnfort which is the main church in Mourne Abbey and Killavullen is another 7 miles away.. Carrigcleean would only about 4 miles from Ballinamona graveyard and would be much the same distance to Kilshannig and Donoughmore cemeteries so before 1936 when bweeng and Glantane cemeteries opened the other 3 graveyards would have been used along with Abbeyswell..

you should look up the website"osi.ie" for maps and find the old colour map version which shows the parish boundaries.

Regards Donie

Hi Donie,

Thanks again for that information, I didn't realise that Kilavullen was an adjoining parish, from looking at current maps it just looked to far away to consider,  I hadn't thought of layering the historical maps on OSI to check this out. Maybe the Killavullen baptism has more relevence. 

Something else that you might have local knowledge about,  there was a Morgan McSweeny who was of among the last fenian prisoners transported from Ireland to Freemantle, Australia, he was one of the attackers who burned Ballyknockane police barrack during the failed Fenian uprising in 1867,  do you know if this Morgan McSweeney might have had  connections to the Mourneabbey area considering Ballyknockane is so close?

Ken