James Donovan b.1898 Bantry, Co. Cork - looking for baptismal or other information

1901 census

Birth of Thomas 1892

Birth of Daniel 1894

Birth of Margaret 1901

Birth of Mary 1895

Birth of Johanna 1903

Birth of Helena 1905

Appreciate that.

Yes, every one of his siblings had their birth recorded, except James.

That's why I'm looking for baptismal or other information about him.

Thank you so much.

Marriage cert for Tim Donovan and Ellen Spillane

Aw, their marriage information! Makes me smile. Thank you so much.

Death of James Spillane, he seems to be a brother of Ellen

Thank you!

I checked the church registers for Bantry but they have no records for the dates in question. I am unable to locate a birth record in Irish genealogy, strange as all the other children,s births are registered. I also failed to locate the death cert for Ellen Donovan (Spillane).

Here is Ellen's death registration.

Do you have any suggestions about what other options might be available?

His birth was definitely not registered.

Thank you so, so much.

Kregbert,

The town land of Tooreen is located in the RC parish of Muintervarra, and their baptism records stop in 1880, so unfortunately, you will not find one for James.

Do you know why James is not in the 1911 census with his family? That census shows the family had three additional children as well - Ellie (Helena), Timothy, and Katie.

Regards,

Thanks Carolyn. Much appreciated.

I just discovered that James had a cousin, also named James, who was born around the same time and lived next door. And both of their moms were named Ellen.

I believe now that this is the correct family. This James shows up on both the 1901 and 1911 census.

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Sheepshead/Tooreen/1092880/

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Sheepshead/Tooreen/376143/

Here is the birth record of his younger brother, Jeremiah.

Katherine

Also, how can the post-1880 baptismal records for Muintervarra be accessed? They must exist somewhere.Thank you. - Katherine

Katherine,

Attached is the marriage record for Patrick Donovan and Ellen Daly....I did see this family in the census records, and figured they were related to the other Donovans. I did not find a civil birth record for their son James either. The reason they did not register the birth is unknown...there were fines for not doing this in a month's time. Besides Jeremiah's record, have you found others?

When the NLI's project to microfilm and then digitize the parish records began, they chose a cut off date of 1880 for all of the parishes in Ireland. You might try to contact the Mallow Heritage Centre in Cork to see if they can be of assistance. There might be a fee to locate the record. Their email is mallowheritagecentre@gmail.com.

Regards,

Thank you so much Carolyn.

Yes, there are birth records for every child in both families except both James's. It is very strange.

We think maybe something happened in early 1898 in Torreen to prevent registration - some kind of natural disaster perhaps?

James, son of Ellen Daly, was born 3/1/1898

James, son of Ellen Spillane, was born 3/3/1898

I will reach out to the Mallow Heritage Center.

Katherine,

I am confused how you know these two birth dates of both James without a record?? Are they just self-reported dates?

Those birth dates are listed on their respective death certificates. And, in one case (mother Ellen Spillane) that date of birth is also listed on his marriage certificate.

So yes, self - reported. But the dates also mesh well with what's in the 1901 and 1911 census.

******

I have been thinking about why the first James Donovan was not listed in the 1911 census for his family. Perhaps he was away at school -? Would that have been common in that era?

Given that his father was a farmer, and all the other children were still at home, it's unlikely they had the financial resources to send someone away to school. He would have been a "scholar" at a local school. If you look at the "household return", you will see the original record shows the mother having given birth to 10 children, and 10 are still alive. Not sure who that other child is. I'm not convinced that all that self-reported data was always accurate. My guess is that he went to live with another relative somewhere for some unknown reason. I did not see him in any other households in Tooreen. On his mother's marriage record, it states that she was from Filebeg, but the only information I found on that town land is Tithe Applotment records from 1831 that shows two Donovan names in Filebeg, no Dalys. I did not locate any Griffth's Valuation nor census records for Filebeg, so it must have been "swallowed up" by another town land.

Attached is your great grandfather's death record.

Regards,

Thanks so much.

I am digging in with the Skib Heritage Center, trying to find out what might have happened in Torreen in early 1898 to not have these births recorded.

It's just so odd.

I appreciate all of your input.

Many thanks,

Katherine

I found James Donovan (mom: Ellen Spillane) living with relatives in Ballyroon Mountain.

You were correct that he (and his sister) were sent to live with relatives. I wonder why.

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Sheepshead/Ballyroon_Mountain/376059/

Kathleen,

Great find tracking down James! His sister is not there though....it's his uncle, aunt, cousin, and grandmother. There is really no telling why he is living with them...could be his uncle needed help around the land, his own home was overcrowded, maybe there was some conflict with his family members, etc....At least you know another name for your tree...Johanna as Thomas' mother, but not sure how both of them fit into the generation above them that you are focused on. Did you realize that Patrick Donovan & Timothy Donovan (married to the Ellens) are not brothers? Patrick's father is Felix and Timothy's is Thomas. I'd guess that Felix and Thomas are brothers, thus Patrick and Timothy are cousins.

Regards,

Thanks. I did not know that they were not brothers! I just assumed they were.

That's a great catch.

James' sister Nora went to live with the Spillanes.

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Sheepshead/Caherurlagh/376077/

What is so interesting is that James and Nora are the only children (out of 10) to not have had their births recorded, and both of them went on to immigrate to the States later in life.

The black sheep!

My bet is that the house was overcrowded.

The Donovans who took James in only had one child at the time, and the Spillanes had 5 boys.

On the census, you can click on "house and building return"....you will note that Patrick Spillane had a five room house....that could be the reason for James being there. But there must have been other things at play because Patrick Donovan only had a one room house with lots of individuals living there in 1901, and by 1911 he was deceased.

I would not refer to James and Nora as the 'black sheep"...I'd call them the "adventuresome sheep"! :)

Adventuresome! Whether they wanted to be or not.

Thanks so much for your help and insights.

It has been invaluable. 

Warm regards,

Katherine