Flanagan

Patricia,

1864 is when statutory birth & death registration began as well as RC marriages. Prior to that year you need to rely on church records, where they exist.

Dungourney is in the RC parish of Imogeela. Their baptism and marriage records start in 1835. Their records to 1899 are on-line on the rootsireland site (subscription).  You could also search this site, which is free:

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/

Alternatively you could wait till July when the National Library in Dublin intends to put them on-line free.

Regarding the spelling of the surname, accurate spelling was not something that was considered important in Ireland in the 1800s and often varies from document to document. Sometimes because the family were illiterate and so it was up to the official recording the information to decide how to spell it, and sometimes because the family themselves weren?t that bothered how it was spelled. Expect it to vary in Irish records, is my advice.

 

Elwyn

Patty, 

Cork & Ross is a diocese. So that?s a group of parishes (under the supervision of a bishop). It?s to the west of Cork city. It does not include Imogeela. Imogeela is in the diocese of Cloyne to the east of Cork City.

Here?s a link to a site which lists all the RC parishes in Ireland, so you can see where they are. Just to make things a bit more interesting, RC parish boundaries often don?t match the nearby civil boundaries (they are generally bigger) and often have different names too, as in the case of Imogeela.  There is an option to see which civil parishes, and which townlands, are within each RC parish to you can cross check that way.

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/

 

 

Elwyn

Patricia:

I went into Roots and was not able to find a baptismal record for Michael Flanagan (plus variants) for the period around 1843 with a father named Owen or any Michael Flanagans regardless of the fathers name in Imogeela RC church.

As Elwyn mentioned, wait until July 8th or whenever you can get in to search the Imogeela register. The records start somewhere between 1833-1835 so the older children will not be there. (There will be tremendous interest in the NLI rollout of the registers and I'm expecting very slow response time for the initial period).

Roger McDonnell

Patty,

I agree with you that people are not necessarily buried in the church they attended. Where they have a family plot and have moved, they often go back to the old plot. In some places the Church of Ireland and RC church share the same graveyard so you get RC families in a Church of Ireland graveyard. And so on. To complicate matters further the RC church generally doesn?t keep burial records, and so if there?s no gravestone you may not be able to establish where someone is buried. (The most frustrating ones are the gravestones that simply say ?Flanagan? with no additional information).

Regarding the structure of the Catholic church, I assume you are referring to the different parish names and boundaries. The civil authorities set up the basic parish system. The Church of Ireland used those names and boundaries. The RC church however decided that those arrangements did not suit their needs and therefore used different names and boundaries. It?s confusing but that?s how it is. So in your particular case, the civil parish that your family apparently came from is Dungourney, and if searching certain records eg Griffiths Valuation, you would rely on that. But when you need RC records, then it?s Imogeela you are searching for. No easy way around it.

To add a little further confusion you probably need to know that the civil parish of Dungourney comprises about 25 townlands and the towns of Dungourney and Clonmult. Dungourney town is in the townland of the same name. So when Katherine Murphy?s place of birth is recorded as Dungourney, there?s no certain way of knowing whether that was the town, the townland or the parish. Could be any of them.

Griffiths Valuation for 1853 lists 5 Murphy households in Dungourney civil parish. Only one Patrick Murphy though.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

That fits with your information. He had plot 25 in Dungourney town, which was a house and yard.

Dungourney is a mainly agricultural area. 303 acres.  In 1901 there were about 20 occupied households in it, with a total of 88 occupants. See:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Dungourney/Dungourney/

No Murphy households in Dungourney in 1901. You can check the valuation records in the Valuation Office in Dublin to see how long Patrick stayed in Dungourney, and who replaced him.

The naming pattern is certainly helpful but there are hazards to be aware of.  Apart from the fact that not all families followed it, there are lots of things that can upset it. Common ones that I have encountered are:

 

1. when the father and either of the grandparents have the same name. So you obviously can?t have two or even three sons all with the same name, so a different name must be used instead;
2. if a child dies young, then it was common practice to re-use the name for the next birth. And if you don?t know about the death, your analysis of who they were named after could be completely wrong;
3. Or if a close relative had just died and their name was used out of respect.
4. I have also noticed that, in this part of Ireland anyway, many families liked to name the odd child after the local Minister/Priest, schoolteacher or a relative with no children of their own.
5. Sometimes people were christened with one name, but went by a different one (and would appear in censuses and other records by that alternative name).

 

So for all these reasons, whilst tradition says, for example, that the 4th son was named after the father's eldest brother, it isn?t always so.

Elwyn

Griffiths Valuation is not a census. It just lists heads of household. So wives, children, servants etc. are not listed. Likewise if you are lodging with someone or sharing  a house, only the head is listed. Poorer agricultural labourers whose homes were of too low a value were omitted, as were people on church land. There are numerous other reasons. So it wouldn?t be too surprising that you can?t find some of the other people you are looking for.

Re the quarry in Dungourney, I am afraid I don?t know the area that well. (I live at the other end of Ireland). Perhaps someone living locally will see this and advise. Otherwise, you could try having a look at the Griffiths maps of the area to see if you can see one shown there. Or if you go through each of the 25 or so townlands in the parish looking at the occupants on Griffiths, you may see a quarry listed. (Railways, churches, schools, bits of bog, quarries etc usually get listed).

Hi Patricia,

As you know Dungourney is part of Imogeela parish which includes the villages of Castlemartyr, Mogeely , Dungourney and Clonmult,

There are churches in the 4 villages with Graveyards in the latter 3.

The graveyard in Dungourney i do not know anything about or how big it is. It is a very old one and no longer in use as far as i know. There are a lot of people from Dungourney buried in the Mogeely graveyardand one which might be of interest. It reads

In Memory of

our dear mother

Mrs. Margaret Meaney

Died 2 Feb.1900 aged 49 years

and of her father

Patrick Murphy

died 15 Sept. 1905 aged 89 years

Mary Cronin died Nov. 1st 1935 aged 28years

Ellen M. Cronin died  Dec. 29 1941 

There is no townland recorded so it may not be of any use but the dates are reasonably close.

A photo copy of the death certificate which you can get from the General Registars Office would give you the address of the Patrick Murphy.

There is 1 Flanagan gravestone which is too early. It reads erected 

by James Flanagan in mem. of his Brother

Laurence Flanagan who Dept. this life June 6th 1827 aged 65

Also his sister Ellen Flanagan who died April 10th 1828 aged 40.

Again no townland reference.

The only Flanagan in Clonmult is one erected by 

Michael Lynch of Kilcounty in mem. of his beloved wife

Johanah Lyncy alias Flanagan who Dept. this 

life Nov.5th 1835 aged 40 years.

KIlcounty is in KIlleagh parish but is quite close to Dungourney.

There is a graveyard in Dangan Donovan which is very close to Dungourney but is also part of Killeagh parish. There are no Flanagan stones there.

Not sure if any of this is of any use to you but you are at the start of the records for Imogeela parish.

Regards for now. Anne.