Traveling to County Clare early 2016 and hoping to meet realtives .

Robert

Your attached file says that both James Egan and his son Patrick Egan were born on 22 November 1866.
Before anybody can help you, you will have to correct this, so that we know which is correct.

Many thanks

Paddy Waldron

I've had another look at this having seen the input from some of the experts in the County Clare Ireland Genealogy facebook group at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/countyclare/permalink/889835041087621/
and
https://www.facebook.com/groups/countyclare/889583907779401/

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Lesson 1 in genealogy: never use all-numeric date formats.  They mean completely different things on opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean!

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After reading my comments below, I hope that you will be able to go back and edit your queries here and on facebook and remove the obvious errors from both in the interests of posterity.

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Egans are rare in Carrigaholt parish.

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Here are Murray Ginnane's transcriptions of the church marriage entry:

JUNE 3rd 1864     Jas = James Egan ??  from Carrigaholt
to MARY BEHEN (crossed out :?Scanlon?  )  from MOYARTA
MICHAEL LIDDANE & MARY SCANLAN        Revd M M

... and of the children's baptisms:

NOVEMBER 15th ? 1866   PATT EYRES / AYRES from MOYASTA / MOYARTA
JAMES EYRES ? or Egan ?  & MARY BEHEN ??    [ Ayrs Ayers Haier ? ]
CATE McGRATH                              Revd P Meehan ?   

[image at http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634671#page/86/mode/1up ]

JANUARY 2nd 1869    MARY EGAN from CARRIGAHOLT   
JAMES EGAN & MARY BEHAN
CATH SCANLAN                Reverend Michael Meehan as M M

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Here are links to the familysearch.org extracts from the corresponding civil records:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG82-YXF

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bfa…

Patt's birth seems to have eluded the familysearch.org transcribers, but it is indexed:

Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958
Name:     Patt Egan
Date of Registration:     1866
Registration district:     Kilrush
Volume:     19
Page:     384
FHL Film Number:     101043

In fact, the problem is that Behan and Behen do not match in the familysearch.org search algorithm:

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bgi…

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James Egan probably married into a Behan/Behen house in Moyarta after Griffith's Valuation (1855), when:
- Bridget Behan occupied (no. 23) a house with rateable annual valuation of 5 shillings on 7a 0r 7p and three separate houses (no. 27a) on the beach with rateable annual valuation of 6 shillings each, all long since claimed by coastal erosion, two of them then occupied by lodgers.
- Mary Behan, possibly the bride of nine years later, occupied (no. 27f) another of the houses on the beach, with rateable annual valuation of 6 shillings

Follow the links to the map views from this page to see the precise locations:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doPla…

It is more likely that one of the 1855 householders was the widowed mother of the 1864 bride.

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When you come to Ireland, you can begin your trip with a visit the Valuation Office in the Irish Life Centre on Abbey Street in Dublin.  There you can check whether one of the Behan/Behen women was eventually replaced by John Egan, and follow the occupiers of the property down to the 1970s, or until it was claimed by the tide.

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A 4 euro photocopy of the full civil marriage record may confirm whether or not the bride's father was deceased, and will also give the groom's residence at the time of marriage.  It can be ordered from GRO head office in Roscommon; see
http://pwaldron.info/CivilReg.html#images

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Most unusually, the birthdate and parents' names on Patrick Egan's death certificate at
http://www.sos.mo.gov/images/archives/deathcerts/1952/1952_00014228.PDF
coincide exactly with those on Patt Egan's birth certificate, apart from the spelling of the mother's maiden name (Behan for Behen).  People of that era generally had no reason to even know their own birthdate, let alone to remember that of a relative and his parents' names while grief-stricken.

Unfortunately, by 1952 Missouri death certificates no longer required the deceased's parents' birthplaces to be stated.

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Mary Egan was lodging with the Melican family in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Moyarta/Moyarta_…

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She was enumerated alone in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Moyarta/Moyarta_…
She was occupying one of the five rooms in the Melican house:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001783020/

She was 60 in 1901 and 72 in 1911, implying a birth year around 1838-1841, and suggesting that she was too young to be listed as an occupier in 1855.

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The most likely matches for John and Mary in the death indexes are

Ireland, Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958
Name:     John Egan
Estimated birth year:     abt 1823
Date of Registration:     1868
Death Age:     45
Registration district:     Kilrush
Volume:     4
Page:     221
FHL Film Number:     101584

and

Ireland, Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958
Name:     Mary Egan
Estimated birth year:     abt 1843
Date of Registration:     Jan-Feb-Mar 1919
Death Age:     76
Registration district:     Kilrush
Volume:     4
Page:     263
FHL Film Number:     0101607

You should add these to your Roscommon order in the hope that at least one of the informants will be identified as a relative.

One doubt about the index entry for John is that Volume 4 covers the first quarter of the year, and his daughter was not born until the second day of the following year, very posthumously.

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I hope that the above will be of some help

pw

 

Hi Robert

You wrote at
https://www.facebook.com/waldronp/posts/10153307101158947
"I am going to be in Salt Lake City this coming weekend on business. Would it be advantageous for me to stop in at the national records center seeking more information on locating some Egan clan in County Clare for my upcoming trip in March?"

If you have a Family History Center of the LDS church near you, then you can order the relevant microfilms and view them at your leisure there.  However, you are more likely to find an expert on Irish records to direct you quickly to the relevant microfilms while you are in Salt Lake City.

Looking back at my comprehensive list of suggestions above, I can certainly recommend that you consult the following in SLC:

1. If you have not already ordered the record from GRO head office in Roscommon as advised above, consult the 1864 marriages for Carrigaholt dispensary district (James Egan m. Mary Behen, 3 Jun 1864).

Here are the index entries:

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
Name:     James Egan
Date of Registration:     1864
Registration district:     Kilrush, Ireland
Volume:     9
Page Number:     171
FHL Film Number:     101249
Name:     Mary Behen
Date of Registration:     1864
Registration district:     Kilrush, Ireland
Volume:     9
Page Number:     171
FHL Film Number:     101249

101249 is the film number for the index (which contains only the above details); the film number for the full record (which will give you new information not available online) is 101460.  See
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/453112?availability=Family%20Hi…
or
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG82-YXF

2. If you have not already ordered the records from GRO head office in Roscommon as advised above, consult the 1866 and 1869 births for Carrigaholt dispensary district (Patt Egan and Mary Egan).
Follow the links in my original post or see
http://pwaldron.info/CivilReg.html#film
for the film numbers, and again make sure to order the film with the registers, not the film with the indexes.

3. Consult the films of the Valuation Office cancelled books for Moyarta District Electoral Division where we found a number of Behens in Moyarta West townland.  My usual strategy is to photograph the entire townland in which I am interested, which allows me to study it at my leisure later, including matching up the lists of occupiers with whatever maps are available.  As John Grenham wrote only this week, it is not always straightforward to figure out under time pressure which (undated) map goes with which (roughly dated) list of occupiers:
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/irishroots/2015/11/30/floundering-with-…
At the very least, follow the Behan/Behen properties down through the years until they were claimed by coastal erosion.

4. If you haven't ordered the record already, check the 1868 deaths for Kilrush superintendent registrar's district to see if the John Egan whose death was registered in that year might be your John Egan.

Keep us posted on what you find

pw

PS: A number of people with Egan ancestors from west Clare are setting up an autosomal DNA project at FamilyTreeDNA.com.
Either you or a member of the earliest living generation of Egan descendants might like to order Family Finder during the present sale (ends New Year's Eve) and join the project.
If you have sent, or would prefer to send, your DNA sample to AncestryDNA, then you can copy the results to FamilyTreeDNA.com for USD 39.

I just came across a page in the deaths register showing that Mary Egan, niece, of Moyarta, was present at the death there on 5 Sep 1898 of her uncle Daniel Tompane, and registered the death on 9 Sep 1898.  See

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

I just came across the page in the marriage register showing the marriage of James Egan and Mary Behen:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…
Witnesses were Michael Liddane and Mary Scanlan.

I just came across the page in the death register showing the death of Bridget Behen:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

d. 17 Nov 1897, Moyarta, 98 years, widow of Denis Behen a shopkeeper; old age, no med. att.; Mary Egan, daughter, of Moyarta, present at the death.