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Looking for Ancestors of John Clarke born in March 1870, in Cavan.

Bailieborough (Cavan)

I would appreciate any help in furthering my quest of finding my Grandfather's ancestors from Cavan. What I have come up with so far, are 4 sets of possible parents. My father said my Grandfather, John Clarke, came from County Cavan. He was born in March 1870, & immigrated to, or arrived into the USA in 1888.
These are the 4 sets of parents;
Patrick and Annie Reilly (some sites list her last name as Kelly) Clarke, their son John born March 15th, 1870;
Thomas and Frances ( Francesca) Redfern(e) (also listed as Rattisson, Pattisson, & Paterson) Clarke, their son John born March 30th, 1870;
Martin and Bridget Flynn Clarke, their son John born March 28th, 1870;
And
Patrick and Rose Rooney Clarke, their son John born March 10th, 1870.
I believe I've eliminated Patrick and Rose, as their son John married a woman in NY City, which was not my grandmother, Caroline Alice Lewis Clarke. Family word of mouth states that my grandfather had 2 brothers that didn't immigrate from Ireland.

Karen Clark Jacobs

12 replies

Hi Karen,  

I will see if can I help you.  First of all Clarkes in Cavan as you may have guessed are very plentiful as are Reilly's.  My grandmother was Clarke and both her parents were Clarkes, therefore I have nine John Clarkes, four of them born around 1870 and some did go to America.  

The best course of action is to go back one step at a time.  If you look at your fathers records, who are his parents?  You should find this on his birth or marriage records and then follow up on the records of his parents likewise including their birth, marriage, death and burial records.  Did they get married in America?  Who did he come with?  Where is he listed on the census records, who is he living with?  Did he ever complete draft records for WW1 or WW2, these often state a next of kin etc.  Using that information you hopefully will build up a wider family.  Very often there is chain migration which means that they may have brought over younger siblings, if you can find the most recent of these, the shipping records might have the name of the townland that they came from and more importantly the name of the person that they knew from whence they came.  Look for their burial records and at their headstones,  I have seen headstones with their townlands on them, you may get lucky..  

The parish and townland is what you need to help you eliminate the wrong lines.  The Irish Government has set up the following website and you can use this to search for your ancestor https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/  it is free to search and if some of the images are not available to view, they can be purchased.  Roots Ireland is another site, it is a subscription site and covers the church records, the originals are available for free at https://registers.nli.ie, but you need good eyesight & tune yourself into the handwriting.  The name John Clarke is common to all religions, so if you can find out what religion he was, you will also be able to eliminate non family.    As you are tracking John Clarke you can use http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie the 1901 & 1911, if the John Clarke is still listed in those census records, he obviously is not yours.  

Try and look at the original documents as transcribers may indeed pick up Kelly as Reilly and visa versa, many sites will allow amendments but it may take them some time to make the changes.  Take note of the names of the children, see can you find the naming patterns ie someone was named after his father or her father etc.  So when you look at the names you have listed are any of them repeated?  You state that Francesca has two surnames, it may suggest that this is her second marriage so follow that up and find out when did she marry Thomas Clarke, Redfern or Rattison is not coming up in Co. Cavan, there are some Pattersons.  People in Ireland around the time your John Clarke was born often married their neighbours, though not strictly so if they travelled for work.  

Pull out all the old photos, look at the back of them, chat to all your family and any neighbours, someone may have a story you may not have heard, neighbours will have the stories your family will not tell!!  

Good luck with John Clarke, if you can identify a townland, do let me know, I may be able to then help you further or he may even be one of mine.  

Regards Carmel

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bailieborough CavanIrelandXO Volunteer

Hello Carmel! I'm so happy you responded. I've done much of what you've suggested, and some of your suggestions that I haven't tried, are unavailable to me, such as pictures. I am the youngest of 9 children, my father, Frederick Delos Clark, Sr. Was the 10th of 11 children born to John Clarke and Caroline Lewis Clarke. I actually am very pleased that I did much of what you have suggested. I've searched many immigration records and Naturalization records as well, however many of the records lack specific information, such as birth dates, etc. I thought I found his Naturalization paperwork, & cried with relief. Then something didn't seem right to me about the document, and when I looked it over, it stated he was but 17 years of age when he arrived in 1883....he would have only been 13...disappointment...it was the wrong person... I have searched the census records on The National Archives of Ireland, to try and determine which parents remained in Ireland, as it was never mentioned that my Great Grandparents, (John's parents), ever immigrated to the U.S. themselves. I have noticed that family forenames get passed on to the descending children....which can also get confusing...It rings true that Clarke's were some of the first scholars....I've realized that we Clarke's do have the desire to keep records, and to become Historians, etc. I've encountered many discrepancies in my search. On the 1900 Census, John clearly lists his birth month and year as March 1870. In a later census, because of the age of the document, a skip in the pen, or bad eyes transferring the information, his birth year was changed to 1871, and on that same census, I believe the 1910 or 1920 census, my Grandmother's middle initial "A.", was changed to a "H". If you zoom in on the document, you can see where the "A" was incorrectly formed...the right line of the "A" wasn't connected, therefore, looked like an "H", and the same with the 0 in 1870. If you zoom in on the zero, you can see where it had a slight curve on the bottom of the number, which would be the case forming the zero. Also confusing, was the 1940 census. Caroline listed herself as a widow, when his death year has been recorded as 1947, however, she also listed 2 of her grandsons as granddaughters. My Grandfather John died after being in a coma. He was warming up a standardbred race horse, it was spooked, threw him off the sulky, & he hit his head on a rock. My father's name in Mother of Sorrows Catholic Church baptism records was Delos Fredricum. My Grandmother wanted to name him Delos Frederick, the Delos after her father, however, the person recording it in public records switched his given name to Frederick Delos. Family stories passed down said she was really upset by that, and would only call him Delos. My apologies for rambling....I just wanted to give you more information. If John immigrated or was Naturalized in 1888, he would've been 17-18, depending on what month it was. On the census the same column is used for immigration and Naturalization, and it isn't clear which event happened in 1888, so I've been checking both for that year....still no luck.

Karen Clark Jacobs

Hi Karen,  

You have worked very hard and could easily give a master class on the problems with recording and transcripts and yes it is frustrating.  Hopefully you will make a breakthrough.  Some did emigrate at a very young age, some may not have been too sure of their age or may have lied for a variety of reasons.  Also look for wills and obituaries some refer to their origins.  As some records may not be transcribed yet, I wonder is there a repository in US that you can get to visit..  

Kind Regards Carmel

 

 

Bailieborough CavanIrelandXO Volunteer

Delos should be easir to track - any luck with that :-)

Could you find out if Thomas and Frances were protestant or RC? your family were RC so if they were protestant that would eliminate them for you?

I'm guessing the other families were all RC from the names.

You have done lots of work on those tricky irish records. One place I have had luck with finding a relative was the claims for old age pension in early 1900's, it refers back to the 1851 and 41 census- I'm thinking for his parents. 

What about the irish civil registration records? available free of charge at familysearch. He should appear in those (along with all those other ones of course but that would get you along the line of parishes and then maybe parish records would be available to check out those other brothers.

One thing I have had to do with many of my searches is widen the search out to siblings, uncles and aunts etc etc. For some of mine I have ended up cataloguing every instance of the surname so I can match them and eliminate the wrong ones- it's a big job unfortunately :-( but it does mean that I can look smugly at trees containing the WRONG Samuel and Elizabeth Knight in the knowledge that there were two couples of the same name having children in different villages at approximately the same time!  For example- if Michael and Bridget had John but the only other children were daughters then they would't be very likely gong by the family story. 

You've probably done all this - but just some thoughts.

I'm suppoing there is no father's name on the marriage certificate for John and Caroline?

jtpfarmside@gm…

No names of parents on their marriage certificate, but one witness was Mary Clark...I know he had a sister Katherine, spelled with a "K", & was told he had a sister named Mary. She may have been the witness of his marriage. I want my tree to be correct, so going by family info is fine, but I want facts to support it. I'm going to do the My Heritage DNA and load it to try and match up my line that way. I have realized that 3 of the 4 of my Grandparents have Irish ancestors! I'm excited and hopeful that I will connect with my family in Ireland. Thank you so much for the great ideas to help me in my search!

Karen Clark Jacobs

Hi Karen,  

Let me know when you have done your DNA test & I will see if you compare with any of my Clarkes.

Regards Carmel

 

 

Bailieborough CavanIrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you Carmel. The lab received my DNA Sample September 17th, so I will post when I get the results. I'm looking so forward to finding my family.

Karen Clark Jacobs

Thank you Carmel. The lab received my DNA Sample September 17th, so I will post when I get the results. I'm looking so forward to finding my family.

Karen Clark Jacobs

Thank you Carmel. The lab received my DNA Sample September 17th, so I will post when I get the results. I'm looking so forward to finding my family.

Karen Clark Jacobs

Thank you Carmel. The lab received my DNA Sample September 17th, so I will post when I get the results. I'm looking so forward to finding my family.

Karen Clark Jacobs

Dear Carmel I have my DNA results and I think your my relative! I'm not sure how this all works, so if you could guide me that would be awesome. I have a Carmel from Ireland that has some of my dna. I'm not sure how to tell who is related to my John Clark....so excited to see if I can trace my great grandparents from the DNA matches....Do I give you my kit #, or how do I give you my DNA results?

Karen Clark Jacobs

Hi Karen,  

I will check this out over the week end, I can see your results.  

Regards Carmel

 

Bailieborough CavanIrelandXO Volunteer

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