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Lee in Ballyhaise

CavanCastleterra (Cavan)

Hello,

I am trying to gather some information and solve some mysteries regarding my late Grandmother, Susan Lee. We were very close, but there was much in her pastthat remains mysterious.Her documents have conflicting information, so it has been very difficult to trace. She lived in London as a young adult, then moved to the US in the 1950's. As far as we know, she never had contact with her Irish family again.Her Irish passport (which is handwritten)indicated her name was Jane Susan Lee, maiden name Leavy, born in 1910. However, other documents indicate her father's name was Lee, which would make Lee her maiden name, not Leavy. She was from Ballyhaise, and she often spoke of a grandmother who lived in Cootehill. I've been to Cavan, searching records, and searching online, but have not been able to find any record that comes close to any of the possible combinations of her name.However, recently, in looking at the Ireland 1911 census again, I've come acrossa Susan Lee, born 1905, who lived in Unshinagh, which appears to be close to Ballyhaise. This birthdate is earlier than exected. However, the number of siblings is consisent withher stories of childhood, and if I infer that the person named James Lee, present as a witness to her baptism, may have been her uncle, then it does appear this Susan Lee had a grandmother in Cootehill, and some of the people I'm inferring as cousins have names that ring a bell (Nellie and Lizzie). Also, she always told us her birthday was Christmas eve (thoughthis is not the birthday on her passport), but I do see that this Susan Lee in the census was baptized on December 24th. So, there is a lot that seems to add up, and I'm really wondering if this is her. This Susan Leehad brothers John, Hugh and Patrick and sister Kate. Parents were John and Susan (or Susanna) Lee, mother's maiden name Lennon. She spoke of a little brother who died tragically when very young, so I've searched for death records on any of these brothers, but it appears there are no such records from this parish available. They were Catholic. I also don't know if there were other siblings born after the 1911 census.

The connection to the name Leavy is very puzzling, as I cannot find any Leavy in the census that remotely resembles what I know of her. I had wondered if Lee might just be a shortening of Leavy, as Lee seemed more an English name, but I've learned that Lee can also be a native Irish name, from O'Laoidaigh, from laoidh, for poem.

I'm wondering if there might still be any Lee'sin this area of Unshinagh/Ballyhaise/Cootehill, or anyone with connections to this family. Or anyone who has ideas about how I might continue to search, contacts in the local area for geneaological help etc. I feel very connected to my grandmother in spirit, and to Ireland, and can't help but hope that I might stilll have some cousins there.

Thank you,

Mia

MIa Rosenfeld

6 replies

Mia:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

You should check the online irish phonebook. http://www.eirphonebook.ie/#  There are three Lee entries in the Ballyhaise area. Make sure you use the Residential Tab.

Roger McDonnell

Castlemore RoscommonIrelandXO Volunteer

Mia,

You say that Susan’s Irish passport gives her surname as Lee but her maiden name as Leavy. That normally indicates she had married a Mr Lee. To your knowledge, did she ever marry a Mr Lee?

Given that she had a passport, my first thought was that she must have produced a birth certificate to show her date and place of birth in Ireland. (Plus a marriage certificate if she was married). So that might make you think that the passport information must be accurate. However when researching recently I came a cross an article that said in the UK, it was only mandatory to produce a birth certificate etc from 1947 onwards. Prior to that the information on the application form was usually accepted at face value. So that makes me wonder when Ireland first required birth certificates for passports. If the Irish passport was issued in the 1950s (as I suspect it was, from your information) I wonder whether she did need to produce a birth cert at that time? If so, that would allow her to put down an inaccurate date of birth plus other questionable details. People commonly knocked a few years off their ages to make themselves more employable or more marriable etc, so Susan may well have knocked 5 years off her age for such a reason, knowing that the authorities wouldn’t check. She probably kept the same day and month to make it easier to remember. So that would fit with your 24th December birth data.

Regarding the death of young brother, I see from the 1911 census that the Unshinagh family had had 5 children all of whom were still alive in 1911. So if this is your grandmother’s family, then the death you are looking for was after April 1911.

Regarding death records, in general RC parishes don’t keep burial records. So that’s probably why you can’t find any. However the death of a young child should be in the statutory death records (on familysearch). I had a quick look at them and there are 6 deaths of young male children named LEE, in the Cavan registration area, around 1915, plus or minus 5 years. A photocopy costs 4 euros each. You could order them all up to see if any came from Unshinagh.

Most families produced children for about 20 years. Since the Unshinagh family married in Jan – Mar 1899, I’d expect them to have had a few more children after 1911. The baptismal records for that period should still be with the parish priest, so you could check those.

I’d also be inclined to knock on a few doors in Unshinagh to see if anyone knows of Lees in the area today. You might get some information that way too.

 

 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you, Roger and  Elwyn, for your helpful replies. I look into your suggestions for further ways to search.

Interesting about documentation required for passports. I suspect that as I'm finding contradictory information in different documents, that proof of identity wasn't required at the time. I suppose it was a very different world from ours, with so much scrutiny of ID documents now. I've wondered if there still exist on record any of the documents accompanying passport applications.

Regarding finding church records, how do I determine the location of the Roman Catholic church that served the area? Is it synonymous with the "Parish/District" name, which is Castletara, or would the closest church have been in Cavan town?

I have also wondered if there are any local geneaologists or someone in the area who could be hired to help search some of these types of local records. 

Thank you,

Mia

 

MIa Rosenfeld

Mia,

Regarding obtaining information from an old Irish passport application, you don’t say where it was issued but if Susan was living in London, then it might have been the Irish Embassy there. I doubt somehow they would still have an application from 60 years ago though. Presumably, after a number of years, it would either have been destroyed locally or sent back to Dublin. You could ask the National Archives in Dublin if they have any old passport records.  I have never heard of anyone getting access to one so suspect the answer is no. Or that they are closed to the public.

The RC parish for Castleterra civil parish is called Castletara. Both Ballyhaise and Unshinagh are in that parish. Cavan town is in the adjacent parish of Urney. You would normally attend church in the parish where you resided (though that’s not to say a child might not be baptised elsewhere eg if the birth was unexpected or if you worked away from home, or perhaps if you gave birth in an unmarried mother’s home, for example).

Many RC parishes have more than one chapel. Some keep records for each chapel, some consolidate them. In this case there appear to be 2 chapels in the parish – St. Patrick’s in Castletara and St Mary’s in Ballyhaise. The details for contacting the parish priest are on this link:

http://www.kilmorediocese.ie/diocese/parishes/47

The National Archives site has a list of genealogical researchers. You might want to contact one of them:

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy1/genealogy-researchers-nationw…

 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Mia I have just come across your post from 2016 and wanted to enquire whether you were sucessful locating any relations throughout your search, My reason for asking is that today i met with a gentleman from Ballyhaise whos name is Hugh Lee and maybe he is a cousin of yours??? I dont have mush information on him but if you want to speak to me about it please feel free to get back to me

Regards

Triona G

IrelandXO member

Hi Triona, I’m only now getting back to this board, and wondering if you are still out there. Would be interested to hear more about Hugh Lee if you are still willing. Kind Regards, Mia

 

 

 

 

 

MIa Rosenfeld

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