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ArmaghShankill (Armagh)

I would appreciate if anyone can help me. I have been searching for my great grandparents, Samuel Norris born circa 1820 and Elizabeth Pennington.

I have a copy of a baptism of their children for St Annes 1842-1852 MIC/1/178/A/24, this reads as Page 191 Bap 09/09/1849 name of child Samuel father Samuel and mother Elizabeth Pennington.

Father Samuel was a seaman. I cannot find any birth for either parent or a marriage.

The family moved to Liverpool before 1861 as I have picked them up on the census for Liverpool. They had two children Samuel was the second and a Hugh.

 

I note on this document for St Annes there are other Norris, two of which the father is Samuel but the mother is a Rachel Graham, these baptisms preceded mine, could it be the same father who while he was at sea, rachel and the two children perished and Samuel then married Elizabeth.  There are so many questions that I need answers for.

 

On the same page there is also a marriage of a Hugh Norris and Arabella Pennington and one of the witnesses was a Jane Norris.

 

Down my ancestral line the names Jane, Hugh,Samuel, Harry are constant.

Please help as i had employed a researcher to carry out some work for me and unfortunately she  looked into the wrong areas.

 

I look forward to any assistance that you cxan give to me

 

Christine Shelmerdine nee Norris

 

IrelandXO member

7 replies

Christine,

Statutory registration of non RC marriages started in April 1845. So if you cannot find a marriage for Samuel & Elizabeth in the statutory records, it would suggest they probably married before April 1845. Not all pre 1845 church records have survived, and not all are on-line. (Some early Church of Ireland records were lost in the 1922 fire in Dublin). There is a Samuel Norris who married Eliza Jane Caughey in Belfast in 1848. I assume you are aware of that marriage and have discounted it.

Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church, and so that may not necessarily be the same church as children were later baptised in. St Anne?s is the biggest church in Belfast and many of its records are on-line but there are at least 10 other Church of Ireland churches in Belfast with records prior to 1845 (assuming Elizabeth was also Church of Ireland). Copies of the surviving records are kept in PRONI, as you are probably aware.

There?s probably no easy way of finding Samuel & Elizabeth?s baptisms other than searching through the records in PRONI. And that presupposes the records still exist.

I looked in the street directories for Belfast 1840 ? 1850  but cannot see Samuel listed. (There is a Samuel Norris in Carrickfergus who was a tin plate worker. That was all).

 

Elwyn

Ahoghill AntrimIrelandXO Volunteer

Hi Christine, I understand that a long time has past since your post. I'm pretty new to all this so maybe Im at the same point as you with some confusion. I'm going by a hand written letter my mum in Liverpool has sent over to me...Ive been living in the US since 2005. In the letter my granfather Alf(Alfred) Norris has tried to put together a family tree for his before he died 10-15 years ago. My Mum lost touch with him for years as he left her and my Nan when my mum was 1. He moved to London just after WW2? So anyway....this is what he left us...

Alf Norris...my grand father..born 1911 in Liverpool

His Father - Alfred Norris...born 1882....siblings Hugh....William....Jane

Their father Hugh born 1850 who I believe was born in Belfast but not sure on that

His Father....this is not in the letter but what id thought I found...was Samuel Norris born 1820 who married Elizabeth Pennington.

If any of this makes any sense Christine ...either way...id love to find out. My son Sean was born in Liverpool and Im trying toput together a record of his Liverpool family which like most of us is mainly Irish.

Look forward to hopefully hearing more Christine

Paul Rearden

IrelandXO member

I'm a little confused, where does Hugh fit in with your Alfred's 

Hugh born 1850 is mine along with several siblings.

My Norris tree is faily comprehensive but I am still stuck at Samuel 1820 and Elizaberh Pennington

I have recently found possible parents of Samuel, these being James (a sailor) and Ellen. Would love to speak to you again. You can tell Sean that he has many relatives in America -living and my brothers children 2 live in Australia and one in America.

Look forward to hearing again from you.

c#

Christine Shel…

Hi Christine, brilliant to hear from you. Glad im not the only one confused. Ive just checked through my ancestry.com page and seem to have found that same James and Ellen link...not sure where I found it or how reliable it is. As you say the names Samuel, Hugh, Jane and what I was left Alfred seem to be constants. I think ive got a little lazy on the research side since getting the DNA test results ...rightly or wrongly I've been spending more time on that route. I have taken both the Ancestry.com and MyHeritage tests. I do have a good collection of possible Norris matches including one with a common ancestor....Elizabeth Pennington. Have you taken either?

Are you still in Ireland? 

Looking forward to hearing from you Christine.....this has been a great start to the day here.....I'll be stuck in the house after running some errands  with a snow storm just about to start....good way to spend the day!

Take care

Paul

 

Paulreo@icloud.com

Hi Christine, brilliant to hear from you. Glad im not the only one confused. Ive just checked through my ancestry.com page and seem to have found that same James and Ellen link...not sure where I found it or how reliable it is. As you say the names Samuel, Hugh, Jane and what I was left Alfred seem to be constants. I think ive got a little lazy on the research side since getting the DNA test results ...rightly or wrongly I've been spending more time on that route. I have taken both the Ancestry.com and MyHeritage tests. I do have a good collection of possible Norris matches including one with a common ancestor....Elizabeth Pennington. Have you taken either?

Are you still in Ireland? 

Looking forward to hearing from you Christine.....this has been a great start to the day here.....I'll be stuck in the house after running some errands  with a snow storm just about to start....good way to spend the day!

Take care

Paul

 

Paulreo@icloud.com

Hello there, this family is a nightmare, I can't find the marriage of Samuel and Elizabeth/Eliza Pennington anywhere. I also can't find any evidence of their births. I have a copy of Samuels sailors ticket and it gives his date of birth being 1818, he was 20 years old when he got his ticket registered in Belfast. I also have a list of his crew records on all the ships he crewed. I have him here in England in the 1861 census and then onwards. My father was George born 1911 in Oldham. Samuel disappeared after the 1881 census and picked him up again in Canada where he was in an Almshouse (hospital) for a number of years and there he passed away and was buried. He stated on his admittance to the hospital that he was a widower (untrue). He died in 1894. Eliza remarried a man here from Oldham, he moved into her home and lived for a couple of years only.

I have a comprehensive tree and am willing to share with you, indeed I would love to speak to you, you may have some information that I have not yet gleaned.

The Norris family were very well known here in Oldham and tended to live pretty close to each other. My father was the odd one out, he was not a drinker, therefore, did not quite fit in with the typical Saturday night drunken brawls. However, the family as they acquired wives they did settle down but their past stayed with them. Later the family split and Uncle Harry and Uncle Hughie moved to Middlesborough and obtained good positions with the transport department.

I remember that my Uncle Hughie ran a prosperous transport cafe  here in Oldham and was reputed to own the first juke box in Oldham, one penny a song.

love to hear from you

Christine nee NORRIS

 

Christine Shel…

A lot of Protestant records in Ireland are not on-line, and many churches have also lost their early records.  The surviving records are mostly in PRONI in Belfast but you have to go in person to look them up. There are quite a lot of churches in Belfast so that can be a daunting task.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

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