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John Thompson, Blacksmith of Newtownhamilton

ArmaghNewtownhamilton (Armagh)

John was married on 24/12/1867 to Isabella Kyle of Lisnagat.

His occupation is Blacksmith so that would make him quite visible in the parish, maybe? Any historical records on the village blacksmith? Maybe there were many blacksmiths in 1867!

His father is John Thompson, labourer. Does this mean his father had no land and would not appear in Griffith's Valuation? I did find one and only one John Thompson in Newtownhamilton - in Cortamlat in 1864.

As John junior is described "of full age" on his marriage certificate, his birth date would be 1846 or before. Unless they have been copied, I understand from PRONI that 1st Newtownhamilton baptisms 1833-1890 are in local custody. Are there any plans to allow these to be more widely seen? That would be a great way of reaching out!

If anyone has any information on John's birth, family, address, etc. I would be most grateful.

John and Isabella had moved to Glasgow by 1870 so I have Census information on them. Perhaps they followed the traditional Irish naming patterns? Not strictly but the names might help. Their children, in order, were:

Margaret, William, John, Ann Jane, Sarah, Elizabeth, John (1st John died in infancy), Isabella, Mary, Christina Livingstone, Minnie, unknown Thompson.

Thanks for reading and Happy New Year!

Thompsonkyle

4 replies

Regarding the records for Newtownhamilton Presbyterian church, I can confirm they are still held by the church. I couldn’t say whether there are any plans to put them in the public domain. Probably not. However it’s worth understanding that the records are not actually public documents. They belong to the congregation and not every congregation is or was agreeable to depositing them with public bodies such as PRONI or especially with LDS because of their practice of re-baptising those named in the records without their permission, which many Presbyterian congregations find offensive. So it would be up to the Minister and his Kirk Session to decide. Some congregations have simply said no. You could however write to the Minister and see if he will provide you with information from the records.

What PRONI does have for that church are the following:

“Register book containing list of session members, 1833, details of families by townland, 1833, accounts, 1832-36, stipend accounts with names, 1832-35, deaths, 1833-c.1836, and lists of poor people supported, c.1833”.  You might find those records helpful.

I doubt whether there would be any special records on a blacksmith. There were blacksmiths every few miles, and though an important trade, not something that would be specially documented.

John’s townland (address) should be on his marriage certificate. Is that not the case?

I don’t see any Kyle households in Lisnagat in the revaluation records for 1867 so that suggests that either the family didn’t live there very long, were lodging with someone else, or had a house too poor to merit listing in Griffiths. Not a common name in that county. Only 3 Kyles in Armagh in the 1901 census, none born in the county.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you for your reply, especially the enlightening reason why the church wishes to retain its own records.

I hope I will be able to visit PRONI soon to see the other records.

John's residence is given simply as Newtownhamilton.  If the townland should be shown, is it reasonable to assume this is Newtwonhamilton Town, Tullyvallen Townland, Newtwonhamilton Parish?

In view of your observation about the lack of Kyles in Armagh, I wondered  if Isabella might have been in service - but there is nothing given on the certificate under "Rank or Profession".

One more piece of evidence: they were married "by licence".

Thompsonkyle

If the townland is given as Newtownhamilton, I would read that as meaning he lived in the village itself. You usually only see a parish mentioned if the person comes from a different parish to the one where the ceremony took place.

Regarding the marriage by licence, there’s no significance to that really. Presbyterians in Ireland don’t call banns and so all their marriages are by licence (or occasionally special licence).

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer
Further information on John Thompson. In the church records was found a John Thompson son of John Thompson and Margaret McMahon of Tullyvallan. They had: Margaret born 10 Jul 1838, John born 1 Jan 1840 and Margaret born 14 April 1845. Is there anyone who could check out the gravestones in 1st Newtownhamilton Presbyterian Church? Thanks.
Thompsonkyle

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