Can anyone tell me how long my ancestors have been here?

Kevin:

The 1864 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Loughgilly civil parish shows seven Wallace entries, five of which were in Rathcarbry. There is a John Sr. and Jr. so I'm wondering if John's father was also John.

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/armagh/loughgilly.htm

I looked for civil marriage index records and found one in 1854 for a John Wallace in the Newry registration and one of the possible spouses was Margaret Clements. Did John and margaret get married that far back?

I also located an 1889 civil death index record for John Wallace which could be Robert's father.

Roger McDonnell

First name(s)	John
Last name	Wallace
Registration year	1854
Registered Quarter/Year	1854
Registration district	Newry
Volume	8
Page	633
County	-
MarriageFinder?	John Wallace married one of these people Jane Wallace, Margaret Clements, Agnes McShane, Jane Aikens

 

First name(s)	John
Last name	Wallace
Birth year	1829
Age at death	60
Registered year	1889
Registered quarter/year	Apr - Jun 1889
Registration district	Newry
Volume	1
Page	568

Hi Kevin

Further to Roger's help, there is a free website PRONI (Public Records Office Northern Ireland) on which you can do a name search.It has the following:

Index : Pre-1858 Wills and Admons Sub-Index : Armagh Diocesean Wills Surname : Wallace Forename : John Occupation : Town or Townland : Rathcarberry Parish : County : Armagh Notes : Description : PRONI Ref : Date : 12 November 1816

On ww.rootsireland.ie/ (subscription site)there is a William Wallace baptism record in Armagh in 1719 but no parish is given. The next William Wallace record is not til 1799 Drumgaw parish; parents Edward Wallace & Sara Boyd.

There are 6 Wallaces in the Tithe Applotments 1827 (free site) - all R G & all in CREGGAN parish

Col

 

Kevin,

I think we have all been working on this one for you:

Looking at the 1901 census for Rathcarb(e)ry, I can see 4 Wallace farms there. You would expect these people to be related to each other.

There?s one headed by Thomas aged 33, one by Margaret, widow aged 60, another by Hugh 36 and the last by John 75 & Jane 50 plus son Robert aged 38.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Tullyhappy/Rathcarbry/

If we then go back to Griffiths Valuation for the townland (1864), plot 1 was a 16 acre farm leased by John Wallace jnr, plot 2a was a 45 acre farm leased by Robert Wallace, plot 2b was a small house leased on that farm by Mary Wallace & Eliza Kinnell, plot 7 was land only (ie no farmhouse) leased by James Wallace & plot 8 was a 13 acre farm leased by John Wallace senr,

You can see where the various farms were on Griffiths maps:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

You can also see what happened to each of those farms right up to 1929 on the revaluation records:

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm

I checked on PRONI?s wills site for you and found two probate files. Here?s the abstracts (summary). The files themselves are in PRONI in paper format.

Wallace John of Mill Street Newry county Down cycle agent died 19 January 1935 at Rathcarbery county Armagh Probate Belfast 25 April to Samuel Wallace farmer. Effects ?1769 0s. 2d.

Wallace Hugh John of Rathcarbry Whitecross county Armagh farmer died 2 October 1939 Administration Belfast 24 July to Julia Isabell Wallace the widow. Effects ?401 15s.

PRONI?s e-catalogue has a John Wallace of Rathcarbery listed as residing in the townland in 1819 (on the freeholder list). Likewise a Robert Wallace in 1828 & Robert & John in 1832. (Being on the freeholder list meant you had enough land to qualify for a vote at Parliamentary elections).

The tithe applotment records for the townland (c 1820s/30s) should also have a list of all the farms and who the tenants were. They are on microfilm in PRONI, Belfast. They are filed by parish. Loughgilly contains Rathcarbery.

So your family were certainly farming there in the early 1800s. You could check the Registry of Deeds records for the 1700s to see if there?s any record of them there. (That involves a visit to either PRONI in Belfast of the main registry in Dublin. In all probability, given that your family were of Presbyterian origins, the chances are that they settled in the area sometime in the 1600s (from Scotland) but whether you will be able to find records going back that far is probably not very likely.

You should be able to piece some of the families together from the information in the 1901 & 1911 censuses plus Griffiths and the revaluation records. Your next step would be to go through the church records. I see that the family were a mix of Baptists and Presbyterians. I suspect that the further back you go they were probably all Presbyterian. I would search the relevant records in the area. I can see 3 Presbyterian churches in Loughgilly. Tullyallen has baptism and marriage records that start in 1834, Mountnorris in 1810 & Kingsmills in 1842. Kingsmills baptism are not on-line anywhere so far as I am aware. Mountnorris are on rootsireland but only for the years 1833 ? 1846 and Tullyallen are on line from 1834 ? 1868. So to see all the records that exist you may need to go to PRONI (or get someone else to do it for you).

I don?t know of any Baptist records for that area. (But in any event as you will be aware they don?t practice infant baptism, so in terms of finding someone?s birth date they aren?t very helpful anyway).

John Wallace married Margaret Clement son 7^th Sept 1854. You can view their marriage cert on-line for ?2 on the GRONI site (sue the search marriage registrations option). That will give you his father?s name which may help you get back a further generation.

Gravestones would be another source of information on the family.

 

Elwyn