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Hart's from Carnally, Creggan

ArmaghCreggan (Armagh)

I'minterested in finding out more information regarding Hart's from in and around Carnally townland, from late eighteenthto midnineteenth century. Specifically a Patrick Hart who was married to Mary Lary. I have exhaused baptismal records and to date I have found two of their children, Arthur Hart baptism at 1835 and an Elizabeth baptism at 1832 also I have found baptism records for a Thomas and Mary for 1825 and 1820 respectively but the mother is recorded as Mary Loy rather than Lary so not certain they are correct family. I believe there should also be baptismal records for a James Hart c.1840 and Patrick Hart at c.1833 but I have hadno luck locating them. Further to this I have been unable to find the marrriage record for Patrick Hart and Mary Hart. It seems there are large gaps in the Upper Creggan Parish records and I'm at loss to what other sources I could persue, so any advice would be most welcome.

Regards Mark Hart

IrelandXO member

5 replies

Mark,

If the parish records are lost or incomplete, then sadly there’s not much that can be done about that. There was only one copy and if it’s gone, that’s normally the end of the matter.

I can see Patrick Hart in Griffiths Valuation for Carnally in 1854. He had plot 39 which was a farm of just under 5 acres. So subsistence farming. Immediately beside him were James & Edward Hart with a plot each, so they are likely to be relations. You can see where the farms were using the Griffiths maps.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie

You can use the Valuation Revision records to see when each of those properties changes hands, and from that it is often possible to find a death certificate (1864 onwards).

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni

They had all changed hands by the time of the 1901 census as there are no Harts in the townland then.

I checked for post 1858 wills but none left one. Or at least not one that required probate. That’s not unusual for small farmers.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn,

Thanks for the reply and I am aware of the situation with the parish records being the likely difinitive but was hoping I'd missed some records such as estate records or equivalent. 

I've checked the tithe and griffiths Valuation with the maps so was aware of the Hart's you mention. Also checked the valuation revisions but your point suggesting a death certificate being the next step, that is the step I haven't taken yet, why? I have no idea because in the valuation at a certain date (which I'll have to go back through to get) You see Patrick's name crossed out and replaced by Edward's, which may suggest an approxiamate date for Patrick's death, making it easier to trace his death certificate!

Thanks again for your help.

Regards Mark

IrelandXO member

Mark,

Allow a couple of years either side of the date that the names chnage. Griffiths clerks could sometimes be out by a year or two.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you Elwyn,

I don't suppose you know the likely graveyards of burial for people who lived in the Carnally townland, Creggan! Crosmaglen comes to mind but should I consider any others?

 

Mark

IrelandXO member

 

Mark,

I don't know the area well enough. Sorry.

 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

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