Early Clarke families from Grange

Hi Elwyn

Firstly, my sincere apologies for not replying sooner to your extremely helpful post.  I am new to the site and did not immediately realise that I had received a reply to my posting. 

From what I know of the Clarkes so far, they were no doubt residing at Grange of Ballyscullion as you suggested.  The name of Milltown is very relevant to the first Clarke, Gabriel who supposedly came from Yorkshire to Ireland at the request of John Clotworthy, Lord of Massareene of Co. Antrim.  He was apparently so impressed with Gabriel's corn mills in Yorkshire that he asked if he could return to Ireland with him to build more.  I was particularly excited with the images you had posted of the plaque commemorating Gabriel  as well as the early burials at Green Garden.  These will help me piece together some of the family structures.  Thank you very much for these.

What I have found so far on Ancestry is an incredible amount of misinformation (particularly regarding the branches who emigrated to the US).  I have had to reject virtually everything posted unless it is supported with confirming documentation.  I have also noticed that there were a large number of sons born, or was it that the daughters were not recorded?  Either way there are way too many Gabriels, Sampsons,  Benjamins & Walters to make this an easy research project.   I have traced one particular branch down to Youghal and Cork from as early as 1697.  This was courtesy of the Quaker records on FindMyPast.   It is very possible that the focus of my research (William Aldworth Clarke) is from this branch.  

I will also have a hunt on the net for the book "Guide to Irish Quaker Records", suggested by yourself, as I am sure it will help me further.

All the best, and once again my sincere thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.

Chris, NSW, Australia

Hi Elwyn

You have been a wonderful help with your advice.  I am still working my way through the various Irish Quaker records on FindMyPast...fascinating reading with an amazing amount of information.  They really are a little known treasure trove.  I have been researching for over 30 years now and it is the first time I have come across Quakers in the family.  I suspect the Clarke Quakers from Cork/Youghal Meetings had changed religion by the mid 1700's though.

I have gone through the various Clark/e burials at Green Garden which appeared in one of the images you had posted.  Are you able to provide a source for this image, as I am very interested in the partial information on the far right hand side.  There are 3 men I can't identify within the family structure:

Bartholemew died/buried 18 Apr 1783, 
Sampson died/buried 21 Feb 1852,  age 50
James of Aughnahoy died/buried 18 Jul 1860, age 30

I may be able to access Olive Goodbody's book once our Libraries reopen in Australia.  They operate an interloan library service which I have used in the past.  If the book is in Australia, I should be able to borrow it for a few weeks.  Here's hoping anyway.

Once again, my sincere thanks

Chris

Hi Elwyn

You have been more than helpful and I sincerely thank you very much for your support with the Clarkes of Grange, Ballyscullion.  I am still hitting a few road blocks, especially with the family of John Clarke & Ann Horseman.  However, as the saying goes "Rome wasn't built in a day"....I expect this project will take quite a while to sort out, if at all.

All the best, many thanks and keep safe in these challenging times.

Regards Chris

Dear Chris and others,

I just discovered this site tonight and definitely would like to help as much as I can. 

As you can see from my name, I am a member of this family, and I am descendant of Gabriel Clarke in Antrim, and John Clarke and Anne Horsman. 

I found this out in two steps, first being my father's first cousin George who years ago before DNA testing and the Internet established our line in Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania back to Anthony Clark who first shows up in American records in the 1770's in a Mercersburg, Pennsylvania and was born in Antrim in 1739 (or perhaps 1749). Beyond that we knew nothing more about Anthony till very recently.

I joined Family DNA some years back and fortunately there is a Clark group there, including one member who is a direct descendant of Gabriel Clarke, named P. Clarke Glennon. My DNA is unquestionably matched to him and the others in that group, so there is no doubt I am a part of that family.

First off, here is Clarke's website with a good deal of information on Gabriel and the Quakers. I think it will help, but Clarke is not a descendant of William Clarke, my ancestor, rather Bartholomew. His line came to Pennsylvania also and is quite well documented. Clarke traveled to Antrim and gathered quite a bit of information from the Quakers there.

https://myglennonfamilyhistory.com/origins-of-the-clarke-family-of-east…

So unfortunately if you read Clarke's article there, you will see it's not completely clear how William Clarke exactly fits into the line of Gabriel -  however, there is a documented Samuel Clarke who may likely be another son of Gabriel, and William may well be his son. But we know from the Autobiography of Adam Clarke, our cousin who was such a significant figure in the early Methodist Church among other very interesting pursuits, and who was also a descendant of Gabriel according to his information, that Adam was also a descendant of William Clarke and his son John, who married Anne Horsman. It would certainly be better to have more primary evidence/documentation on these lines than just Adam's autobiography, but there it is. Anthony Clarke and his son Anthony Clarke are also listed by Adam as one of the many sons of John Clarke and Anne Horsman, and given that info and the fact that my DNA is so close to Clarke Gennon's and the others, it seems extremely likely that the Anthony's listed there are my direct ancestors. It is also possible that within the current DNA structure we see that Samuel Clark might be Gabriel's brother? Or that William Clarke was a nephew and not a grandson? Again the DNA is so close, we can't be dealing with too much distance here. So it's not perfect in my case, but I see no reason to doubt Adam Clarke. Also there are records in PRONI that another Clark cousin has inspected not long ago, concerning John Clarke and Anne Horsman. That link is certainly established.

There are at least three known lines of Clarke's that came to America - Clarke Gennon's in Pennsylvania, mine briefly also in Pennsylvania and then North Carolina, and one to Maryland as well. We think that Gabriel Clarke came from the area of a village in west Yorkshire called Long Preston in Ribblesdale, but that is a bit provisionary. 

There also is this branch that shows up a lot in online personal family trees that came to Massachusetts in the early 18th century as a part of the group overseen by William Boyd. To be honest I am not completely certain, for a number of reasons, especially some dating issues, that these Clark's are a part of our family. Unfortunately however they are probably the most visible online Clarke genealogies! I am not saying absolutely they are not, and I did try to see if there are any living members who might be able to take a DNA test to see if there is a match. Here is one online genealogy, which does claim the link. But others online have wildly unreliable dates that cannot be trusted. 

https://www.geni.com/people/John-Clark/6000000002766549532

Link to Adam Clarke's Autobiography - page 5 has a long footnote concerning the genealogical information:

https://books.google.com/books?id=nnRmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA3&dq=adam+clarke+au…

I have researched the Horsman family a great deal more, and there is much of interest there, including our apparent familial connection - if not strictly genetic, this is a complicate issue I am still researching and too complicated to go into here - with Sir Edward Waterhouse, who was among other offices secretary to Wiliam Sidney in Ireland. The Horsman's (and the Ingram's, more of our ancestors) were originally from Warwickshire. The Ingram's are documented well back into the Medieval period. Several of the Horsman family were Mayors of Carrickfergus. We also have a connection to the O'Cahan's, and some truly curious interactions with our cousin General Richard Kane, whose name was originally O'Cahan.

I think this enough for now. I would be happy to share more of what I have. I am really interested to see a member of the family in Australia - one thing I do not think anyone has pursued is how many of the family still are in Ireland, if any. The Quaker Meeting house was being maintained at least into the 1830's. 

Let me know if you want my email for further information. Hope this all helps. The picture is not 100 pct clear but there is a lot of good info, mostly thanks to DNA testing, so that is reassuring. What is online in many published personal trees can be quite confusing, but I have worked through/around a lot of that.

Best, 

Dennis Clark

I see from another entry you made that you are researching a William Aldworth Clarke who fought at Waterloo? I just thought that I would add that Adam Clarke mentions a Joseph Clarke, a brother to my Anthony, son of John Clarke and Anne Horsman, who died in Canada at the Battle of the Plains of Abraham in Quebec. So there is if we can rely on Adam's report a Clarke who joined the military.

Dennis Clark

Just noticed something else that MIGHT be useful online - this online tree appears to work from the Quaker records, and lists the line of Gabriel Clarke who died in Youghal in 1739 as the son of Bartholomew, according to the first listed source there, from the Quaker records. So this very much sounds like Clarke Gennon's line, but of those who stayed in Ireland and did not immigrate to America. Is this the answer to your William Aldworth Clarke, combining your DNA with all the other evidence?

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Clarke-14265

Dennis Clark

If the line of William Aldworth Clarke goes back to Bartholomew and our original Gabriel Clarke, then there is no direct connection at all to John Clarke and Anne Horsman and John's father William, they would just be cousins.

Dennis Clark

Hi I've been reading your Clarke thread. I am a Clarke from N Ireland. My family have lived near Magherafelt in Co Derry since 1700's. We know from Adam Clarke's account that several of John and Anne ( Horseman's) sons settled near Magherafelt and Lough Neagh. We have Gabriels, Williams, Johns etc in many generations of my family and are pretty confident that we are descended from the Ballyscullion Grange family but we are missing a gernational link. My brother has had his DNA profiled. It would be great to make a connection with you. By co-incidence my mother is descended from the Aldworths of Cork/ Kerry.  

Alison Clarke  

Hi Alison

Would you please contact me on raccos@hotmail.com re your very interesting posting.  Would be very interested to discuss the DNA angle as this is the only way I will be able to solve the riddle of my husband's Clarkes.  Same with the Aldworths.  I am probably 2 generations short with both families.  Dennis (above) has been very helpful with his postings and information on the Clarkes in particular but has been quiet over Christmas.  I suspect my Clarkes were heavily involved in the clothing industry  in Cork but can't prove it at this stage.  Chris, NSW, Australia

Dear Alison and Chris,

I hope you both had a good Christmas - yes, Chris, I have been a bit busy with other parts of my family tree, which I think is finally about to reach some sort of completion - mostly on my father's mother's side, the Moncrief's, which have been most interesting and productive, to say the least - they came to Virginia in the mid 17th century and married into many well established families there. 

But for our Clarke's - Alison, this is just wonderful finally to know we are still in Northern Ireland! So happy to see that. As to DNA, my results are at Family DNA site, in the Clarke group there - it seems to be inactive now but I know from sharing some info with Chris you can still access the test results. I think even the least expensive test there will establish a link to us. So perhaps that might be the easiest way to confirm it. But from the names you give, it certainly does sound you are directly related. I didn't know the Horsman family had anyone who had left Carrickfergus - that is also interesting and any more info you have on that is of course very welcome. Please also contact me at vaeringjar@yahoo.com, Alison. What a nice way to begin the New Year! I wish I could come to Antrim!

I recently found mention of a Horsman who was close to Anne Boleyn - unfortunately so far I have not been able to confirm she is of the same Horsman family from Barth on Heath in Warwickshire as our Horsman ancestors - they are not as well documented as the Ingram family from nearby Little Wolford - I did find that Ingraham Horsman, another mayor of Carrickfergus in our line, did attend Oxford before he came to Ireland - his mother was Mary Ingram. Here is a bit on Margery Horsman - I have not had much luck pushing the Horsman line any further back than Anthony Horsman, Ingraham's father, who must have died around 1580 - so perhaps he is Margery's brother or cousin, if indeed she is of the same family? It's hardly that common a name, but I do wonder how she would come to be at court - I think the Horsman's like the Ingram's where successful but none of them ever rising too high, none knighted, for instance but certainly appear to be substanical gentry in that part of Warwickshire. Probably the most interesting fact about the Ingram's is that the line of Mary's brother later moved into Stratford upon Avon itself, and purchased Shakespeare's house in the later 17th century and held it for a generation. 

Here is a bit on Margery - I have just found this, need to study it more for reliability, etc, but it looks decent - but gives nothing on her background:

https://onthetudortrail.com/Blog/2017/04/28/queen-anne-boleyns-friendsh…

Got to run now - I owe you an email, Chris - I have been thinking some about our troublesome Clarke's in Massachusetts - but in sum, I really continue to doubt they are really even our Clarke's. We really need a descendant, if we can find one, to take the DNA test to resolve this. I don't think there is good enough other documentation. Ir you read about the Rev. Boyd's project to emigrate to America, you see very quickly they were all really well established Presbyterians, and I keep stumbling over that fact - I just do not see how any of our Clarke's in the late 17th century would becomre Presbyterian, and there is that one source that does place them originally in Scotland - that makes a lot more sense. Of course we cannot completely rely on religious affiliation, and certainly my Anthony Clark later, much later, almost 100 years, did marry a woman who was Presbyterian and originally from Belfast, but again that was much later and in Pennsylvania. But I do wonder if that is the case, why we see this information which is quite old now that does link them to our Clarke's in Antrim - you wonder how anyone would know to grab onto that - unless perhaps someone just read Adam Clarke's autobiography and assumed that the Massachusetts family must have been, since they did certainly themselves come from Antrim, must be related to us. 

DNA test. So I wonder if it's feasible to find a descendant of that branch and try to contact them - as far as I know Clarke Gennon nor anyone else in that group researching the Clarke's ever tried to . I did find a huge family tree for them on the Mormon site, and it really does appear at least reliable. I think it's time to look at that and try to find a living Massachusetts male descendant. They spread out from Massachusetts to New Hampshire, then New York, and all over the US in the 19th century. That much I remember from that tree that I found.

More later! Happy New Year!

Dennis

Is this thread still open, this is 2024? Dennis, I am a descendant (well documented) of the Clarks that came to Mass in 1718. I have taken the Ancestry DNA test, could take others.
Love to hear from you. BTW, I'm going to Ulster May 7, 2024..

Gary Clark gary@gclark.com