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Looking for the Lynns of Londonderry

AntrimBallinderry (Antrim)

 Hello,

 

My name is Marie Lynn Spinosa.  I am doing some ancestry research and came across your website.  I am related to the Lynns of Londonderry.  I have done some research in the past on the subject but had put it away for awhile.  My daughter is studying in Ireland this Fall with the University of Notre Dame and this has given me a good reason to make the trip.  My father who is 83 has mentioned often that he wanted to travel to the area to see his ancestors' home but is no longer able to travel.  I would like to bring him back some pictures and/or information on his ancestors.  I will be spending a few days in the Belfast/Londonderry area and am planning to spend a day in the Derry area.

Here is what I know.  My great-grandfather's name was James A. Lynn.  He was born approximately in 1872 in the Londonderry area.  He lists his parents as William Lynn and Ellen McCool.  William and Ellen were possibly married in 1861 in County Antrim.  Ellen's parents I believe were John McCool and Jenny McCracken.  William and Ellen had a daughter William John in 1863, Mary Jane in 1867 (Burnerana Don) and a son Robert Francis in 1869 (City of Derry).  I cannot find a record of James that shows them both as parents so I'm wondering if something happened there.  I did find a male birth record for 09 Nov 1873 for a Lynn male listing Ellyn Lynn as the mother in Antrim but no reference to William.

I also found a record indicating that William Lynn owned 75 acres during this time period and the address is listed as Mowillan, Moneymore.  I assume they were Catholic as my family historically is Catholic.  The only other information I am certain of is that James came to America - leaving in May of 1892 on the State of California and arriving in New York on June 6, 1892.  He married in April 1894 and listed both of his parents as deceased so I am looking for records of their deaths. He does list their names as William Lynn and Ellen McCool (or M'Cool).  I have all the US information already.  Most of the US information is from our personal records so I know it is correct.

I can find some references to possible death records.  They don't all fit together so I don't have any idea if they are correct.  Ellyn is listed in Ireland Civil Registration Indexes as death occurring in Ballyshannon in Jan - March 1896.   There is a death record in 1882 in Donegal.  There is a record of gravestone inscription in Derry in 1870.  I have quite a bit of early information on Ellen - her parents were John McCool and Jenny McCracken (?).  She had three siblings - John, Jane and Margaret.  Her dad, John, had a brother James and they were from Londonderry.

According to my father James was sent to America as a punishment for some sort of trouble.  He would never talk about it.  After marrying and fathering several children he went out and got drunk on Fourth of July, walked in front of a moving train and was killed instantly so ,there was not an opportunity to get information from him later in life.

I have done quite a bit of research through several of the larger geneology sites.  I have also gone through quite a bit of the online information through PRONI, have looked at some of the Derry ancestry links and have viewed some of the local church information.  I am having a hard time progressing any further and only have a couple months to get more specific information.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,  Marie

 

IrelandXO member

16 replies

Marie,

You mention an address of Mowillan, Moneymore. I think that will be the townland of Mawillian. (499 acres, in the civil parish of Artrea). The modern Rock Rd & Mawillian roads run through the middle of it. They are just after Spring Hill stately home on the B18 out of Moneymore.

I looked in Griffiths Valuation for 1859  but there was no Lynn farm listed there then. Likewise no Lynn there in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Springhill/Mowilliam/

However I checked the revaluation records for the townland and they show a William Lynn acquiring plot 15 in Mawillian in 1879.  The plot consisted of about 16 acres, including a farmhouse, 2 small houses and outbuildings. William sublet the farmhouse, the 2 other houses and all but 5 and a half acres of land. So he himself was not living there, and so he must have lived elsewhere (nearby obviously). Occupancy of the farm changed in 1897 to a David Walls. As I say, William must have lived in another townland near to Mawillian.

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/dcal_proni_val12b/RelatedVolume.aspx?312

Plot 15 today is in the area bounded by the Mawillian Rd, Rock Rd and Ballygruby Rd. Easy enough to find.

 

I searched the 1901 census for any Lynns living near to Springhill. I found one, and studying the information it is evident that the farmer, Mary Ann Vincent was previously a Lynn. She was farming plot 41A in Drumullan (a farmhouse, outbuildings and 28 acres of land).

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Springhill/Drummullan/1534650/

& 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Springhill…

When I looked at the Griffiths revaluation records for 1899 ? 1915 she is listed as Mary Ann Lynn. So this looks like your family. William Lynn?s name appears against the farm until 1879 when it is replaced by Mary Anne (presumably his daughter).

William Lynn?s name appears in the records in 1872, when he farms 28 acres himself and sublets some of the land, including a brickfield, to John Lynn.

Plot 41A today is at the 3 way junction of Moneyhaw Rd, Coagh Rd & Lisnahall Rd about 2 or 3 miles south of Moneymore on the Moneyhaw Rd. 

Mawillian & Drummullan fall within the Magherafelt civil registration district. I searched the records for a death of a William Lynn in that district 1870 ? 1897. I found only one, which I suspect is your William. He died 1873 Magherafelt Vol 6, page 588, est year of birth 1803. I would send off for that death certificate and see if it is for a farmer from Drummullan.

There?s a marriage record between John Vincent and Mary Ann Lynn registered in Magherafelt Apr ? Jun 1887 Vol 1, page 931 which is evidently Mary Ann marrying. I would send off for that certificate to see who her father was. (Hopefully William, or perhaps she was a 2nd wife?)

There?s a death for John Vincent in Oct ? Dec 1894, Magherafelt Vol 1, page 532. Est year of birth 1839.

There?s a death I would investigate. Ellen Lynn died Magherafelt 1865 Vol 1, page 610 est year of birth. Might be William?s wife.

I found this probate file on the PRONI site. The full will is not on-line yet but obviously you could get a copy from PRONI:

Full Abstract :

Vincent Mary Ann of Drummullan county Londonderry widow died 11 June 1936 Probate Belfast 5 November to Ann Isabella Smith married woman. Effects ?260 18s. 7d.

William Lynn & Ellen McCool evidently married before 1864. RC marriages prior to that date are not in the civil records so you won?t find it there. You will need to rely on church records. Drummullan is in the RC parish of Ardtrea and Desertlyn. They baptisms start in 1832 and marriages in 1830.  Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church so you have to hope that she came from the same parish. (If she came from Co Antrim then that gives you quite a lot of parish records to go through). There?s a copy of the parish records in PRONI (MIC1D/35). That parish doesn?t appear to be included in the records on the Rootsireland site so you are unlikely to find it there. Hopefully you will find all their childrens baptisms though.

I looked for James Lynn?s birth. Nearest I could see was Thomas James Lynn Magherafelt 1873 Vol 16, page 690.

If the family were farmers they would not have moved around the country much and so I would exclude births outside the Magherafelt area unless you have firm evidence indicating they were elsewhere. The birth you have found for a James to an Ellen Lynn in Antrim does not sound right to me. If no father is listed it means the birth was illegitimate. (And the mother would normally be shown as single). I doubt that?s your family. Likewise I doubt the death in Ballyshannon was your family. Why would a farmer from Derry be in Ballyshannnon?

I would have a look in Moneymore chapel graveyard for Lynn & Vincent graves. Might be worth asking locally in case there are any other graveyards they may have used.

Anyway, I hope the above information gives you something to work on.

 

 

Elwyn

 

 

Ahoghill AntrimIrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn,

I'm just a helper on the ireland xo site like you, but I must congratulate you on all that work you did.  That was some reply given to that lady Marie.!!

Hats off to you,

Anne Dennehy

IrelandXO member

Anne,

 

Thank you. I like a bit of detective work.

 

Elwyn

Ahoghill AntrimIrelandXO Volunteer

Elwyn I am humbled and amazed by all of the relevant detailed information you have found for me.  I have searched for a long time without getting anywhere where I could progress further.  I do agree that the James in Antrim birth does not fit.  I have lost track of where I saw this but there was another Ellen Lynn that I came across and was not related.  This appears to be that person - the information on her is consistent with this birth.  I will follow the trail that you have suggested.  I did find some information on the McCools who do appear to be from County Antrim.  I do have alot of information on them but they are extremely confusing since two brothers James and John each had children of their own named James and John.  Alot of people with the same name out there.

Thank you so much for your guidance.  I will follow the path that you suggested for me.  You have been extremely helpful and I am very appreciative of all your help.

If all the people we meet in Ireland are like you we will have a terrific trip.   Thanks again,  Marie

IrelandXO member

Elwyn I am humbled and amazed by all of the relevant detailed information you have found for me.  I have searched for a long time without getting anywhere where I could progress further.  I do agree that the James in Antrim birth does not fit.  I have lost track of where I saw this but there was another Ellen Lynn that I came across and was not related.  This appears to be that person - the information on her is consistent with this birth.  I will follow the trail that you have suggested.  I did find some information on the McCools who do appear to be from County Antrim.  I do have alot of information on them but they are extremely confusing since two brothers James and John each had children of their own named James and John.  Alot of people with the same name out there.

Thank you so much for your guidance.  I will follow the path that you suggested for me.  You have been extremely helpful and I am very appreciative of all your help.

If all the people we meet in Ireland are like you we will have a terrific trip.   Thanks again,  Marie

IrelandXO member

Elwyn I am humbled and amazed by all of the relevant detailed information you have found for me.  I have searched for a long time without getting anywhere where I could progress further.  I do agree that the James in Antrim birth does not fit.  I have lost track of where I saw this but there was another Ellen Lynn that I came across and was not related.  This appears to be that person - the information on her is consistent with this birth.  I will follow the trail that you have suggested.  I did find some information on the McCools who do appear to be from County Antrim.  I do have alot of information on them but they are extremely confusing since two brothers James and John each had children of their own named James and John.  Alot of people with the same name out there.

Thank you so much for your guidance.  I will follow the path that you suggested for me.  You have been extremely helpful and I am very appreciative of all your help.

If all the people we meet in Ireland are like you we will have a terrific trip.   Thanks again,  Marie

IrelandXO member

Elwyn I am humbled and amazed by all of the relevant detailed information you have found for me.  I have searched for a long time without getting anywhere where I could progress further.  I do agree that the James in Antrim birth does not fit.  I have lost track of where I saw this but there was another Ellen Lynn that I came across and was not related.  This appears to be that person - the information on her is consistent with this birth.  I will follow the trail that you have suggested.  I did find some information on the McCools who do appear to be from County Antrim.  I do have alot of information on them but they are extremely confusing since two brothers James and John each had children of their own named James and John.  Alot of people with the same name out there.

Thank you so much for your guidance.  I will follow the path that you suggested for me.  You have been extremely helpful and I am very appreciative of all your help.

If all the people we meet in Ireland are like you we will have a terrific trip.   Thanks again,  Marie

IrelandXO member

Apparently I hit the send button more than once...

IrelandXO member

 

Marie,

Something I forgot to comment on in my previous message was that William Lynn owned his land (as opposed to renting it) in Mawillan, as did John in Drumullan. William is listed with 75 aces ? the figure you mentioned - and John with 28 in the 1878 landowners guide. See link:

http://www.failteromhat.com/lo1876/260.pdf

To have owned land in Ireland in the 1800s was quite an achievement. One of the big grievances was that 10% of the population owned 90% of the land and even if you were quite successful and could afford to buy, it was hard to get the owners to sell. Frustrating perhaps for a private householder obliged to rent because there was no property on the open market for sale, but for a farmer very annoying. If you spend 25 years improving a farm which is leased, your reward was often to see your rent increased because the value has gone up (because of your own hard work improving the land). This was a reason why there was agitation all through the 19th century for land law reform. That was finally sorted with Wyndham?s Land Act in 1903 which allowed tenants to buy their properties with a government mortgage. So when a farmer did own his land in the 1800s, as in William?s case, there?s usually a story about he managed that. It was very rare. Could just be a more reasonable landlord who agreed to sell, but might also have been for some other reason. Probably worth digging in PRONI to see if you can find any reference to him. (Registry of Deeds records).

 

Elwyn

Ahoghill AntrimIrelandXO Volunteer

Thanks again Elwyn.  There is a lot I do not know about Ireland.  I'm slowly getting educated about the area and I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.  I really appreciate your help.

Marie

 

IrelandXO member

Hello Marie

Just to add a bit more for you, the Belfast Morning News of March 9th 1860 carries a Proceedings at Law section which mentions

"Part of Drummullen...containing 21 acres 3 roods, with profit rent of £20 3s. Sold to Mr William Lynn for £550....Part of Drummullen...containing 58 acres, with profit rent of £44 16s. Sold to Mr William Lynn for £1,035."

Same paper, July 5th 1865:

"Lot 2 Part of Mowillian...Sold for £590 to Mr William Lynn, Ballinderry.

Lot 3 called Littlebridge, otherwise Drummullen (parts of)...Sold for £730 to purchaser of Lot2"

So William is possibly the same as:

LYNN William, Derrykillultagh, Ballinderry

at time of Griffiths Valuation in mid 1800s.

The Tithe Applotment records of 1833 list a Robert Linn, John Linn and William Linn at Derrykillultagh.

This post on another website has some further interesting info on the Lynn name at Derrykillultagh :

http://pub29.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=2456023548&frmi…

If you google 'Lynn Derrykillultagh' there are a number of other interesting items - perhaps linked families, certainly worth checking.

Best of all, the 1851 census for Derrykilltulagh survived! A 22 yr old William Linn can be found on it, living with parents, William and Mary, and various siblings:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/derek.hawthorne/Antrim5111.html

William senior is a Blacksmith, so ties with mention of later Blacksmith connection in the link I posted further up this message.

 

 

scotmum

scotmum

Thank you so much for the additional information.  I will definitely check it out.  I am really happy to have so much information to look at prior to my visit to Ireland.  I am hoping to see Derry while I am there and this really brings the past to life for me.  I appreciate your help very much,  Marie

IrelandXO member

Hello again

Elwyn, I assume, and I have based most of our research around your statement :

"I also found a record indicating that William Lynn owned 75 acres during this time period and the address is listed as Mowillan, Moneymore"

and have obviously made some good finds regarding that William.

Can I just urge caution, however, that, if you have no other proof that the William of Mowillan [stet] was you James' father, ie, that no records held  by James and passed down nor any verbal story passed down made mention of Mawillian, Drummullan or Derrykillultagh,  you tread carefully.

I  can see the birth/baptism records on familysearch that list 2 children of a couple named William Lynn and Ellen McCool ( corresponding birth entries on the Ireland Civil Registration Index show Robert Francis Lynn on Londonderry district page 17 volume 191 and Mary Jane Lynn on Inishowen District volume 17 page 126 ). As you have said, those births seem to have been in the County Donegal (possibly Buncrana)/County Londonderry area (indeed one entry suggests the city of Londonderry itself). As I think Selwyn has said earlier, these locations would not be the most obvious ones for children to be born unless the couple lived fairly nearby, yet the 'William' we are following, so far seems to have links with places further away from the city or indeed Buncrana. That said, given that the parents names match those of James on his Boston death records, I would agree the likeliehood of them being his siblings (did family oral or written history confirm he had siblings of these names too?). As it is relatively inexpensive to obtain genealogy photocopies of  birth records (approx 4 euros plus postage from memory), I would think it sensible to do so as soon as possible, using the district, volume and page numbers as indicated above. Such should indicate occupation of the father, William, and townland. These clues may further help you to rule in/out the 'William' we have been following on this thread or at the very least provide other avenues of research.

I think the births you have come across previously to an Ellen Lynn in County Antrim, may have been to Ellen Lynn (nee McCullough) wife of a William Lynn, who seems to have been having children, including a James, in and around the Ballymena area in the 1870s. There are also a few in the county/area to an Ellen Lynn with no father indicated, including, again, the Ballymena area, so possibly the same Ellen, albeit for whatever reason her husband's name has not been recorded.

Also, can I ask, as this thread is posted under Ballinderry messages (which I've only just noticed), were you already aware of and had research on a William Lynn in that area before we mentioned him on this thread and already had linked him to the William of Mawillian?

scotmum

scotmum

Hello Scotmum,

I am somewhat of a novice in this research so possibly I should have posted it differently?  I have spent quite a bit of time doing some cross checking this week and I do believe you are correct – we are most likely talking about two different Lynn families.  I had no idea how many Lynns there were in that area.  I also unexpectedly came across a death record in America for a Lynn Ellen McCool.  When looking at it I am pretty sure it is William’s wife.  Her parents are listed as John McCool which I know is correct and Fannie Hutton.  She died in 1893 in Nashua New Hampshire which is where James settled.  She is listed as a widow at the time of her death.  James married in 1894 and listed both his parents as deceased so that is also consistent.  Ellen was 60 at the time of her death so she would have been around 40 when she had James so that makes her an older mom but still logical.  James Lynn left Londonderry on May 28, 1892 and arrived in America on June 6th.  The ship was called the State of California.  My assumption is that one of them came first and the other followed although I am not sure which one was first.  There is a death record for a William Lynn in 1874 in Londonderry so I am wondering if William passed away shortly after James was born.  James is listed as a farm laborer so it does make sense that he lived on a farm.  I was thinking that I might find some information by looking for Mary Jane or Robert to see what happened to them?

Thanks for your help and also Elwin’s research.  It’s only having all the information available that has helped me to somewhat divide up the information into a pattern and I would not have been able to do that without seeing it all.

Any additional input is greatly appreciated.

Marie

IrelandXO member

Looks like Ellen may have been in Nashua with her sister.   A Jane McCool, aged 65, dies there on 7th May 1896. Same parents listed as Ellen.

scotmum

I think I have found some information that is likely a match.  Looks like William passed away in the Londondery area in 1874.  Ellen is shown as a widow in 1879 living in an area of Donegal that is listed as Argdagh, Ballyliffin, Magheryard?  There is also a legal matter in 1887 listing a John McCool with Ellen as a witness.  Ellen's dad's name is John McCool.  The area is listed as Cullenbuoy Donegal which I cannot find on a map but can find references to in other ancestry posts.

IrelandXO member

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