Ireland XO
Back to Message Board

Ahoghill - Arthur Family

AntrimAhoghill (Antrim)

I'm looking for information for the family of John Arthur (1808), from Ahoghill, Antrim. I have immigration records which show limited detail but haven't found any records of birth or first marriage, or for that of parents and siblings. I have gathered info in Ancestry.com but many of the dates and names don't have sources and could be speculation. I can account for his second wife and their children through Australian records.

Parents: John Arthur (1780-1825) and Margaret (1784-1886), listed as surname Darrag - not sure where these dates and maiden name are sourced from.

Firstwife, at the time of immigration was Elizabeth (1807-1838). Common thought is Elizabeth's maiden name is Young, but I haven't seen any records to show this. Elizabeth died on journey to Australia, along with youngest child Mary (1838). They had 2 other living children Anna Jane (1830)and Margaret (1834) who survived the journey. Again no birth records have been found.

Other details say John is the oldest of siblings David and William Arthur - they are listed on family tree sources in Family Seach as both being older than John - but still no sources to confirm their births/marriages/deaths etc

I am also looking for records of John's second wife was Margaret Dorrough who came to Australia with her brother Matthew in 1842. Their name is listed with variations of Dorrough and Daraugh. Their parents are listed as John Dorrough and Elizabeth Donahay. There native place is listed as Strabane, Donegal.

I realise digital records are hard to come across but hoping someone has access to records which are not online. I would like to trace the family back as many generations as possible. I would also like to confirm or disprove and connection to William Arthur, the father of American President, Chester Alan Arthur, who also came from Antrim.

Many thanks in advance for any assistance.

bee.miles@gmail.com

13 replies

The 1766 census of the parish of Ahoghill lists 2 Arthur families. One was headed by James and the other by John. Both were Presbyterians (so of Scottish origins, like the majority of the population of Ahoghill).

http://www.ulsterancestry.com/ShowFreePage.php?id=328

Gravestone transcriptions in Ahoghill are on the Braid website. I checked it but there are no gravestones for this family. So they were probably buried in unmarked graves (as the majority of the population were at that time).

One problem you face is that none of the 3 Presbyterian churches in Ahoghill has any baptism or marriage records earlier than the late 1830s. So no records are likely to exist for John’s baptism, his 1st marriage or of his parents. And Presbyterians generally don’t keep burial records either so there won’t be any record of Elizabeth’s burial in 1838. You may struggle to find any record of the family at all.

Arthur is a reasonably common name in Co Antrim. There were about 100 in the 1901 census of the county.

If you think there may be a connection to President Arthur’s family, you might want to write to the historian at the family cottage in Cukllybackey, to see what he/she knows of the family. This is what Wikipedia says about them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Cottage

President Arthur came from Cullybackey which is about 5 miles north of Ahoghill, but is in a different parish. I would guess his family were Presbyterian too. From 1728 they probably attended Cullybackey Presbyterian church (built that year to cope with a huge increase in the population and congregation). Prior to that they likely attended church in Ahoghill.

Re the Dorrough family of Strabane, Strabane is actually in Co Tyrone, not Donegal. Do you know what denomination they were?

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Like Deb M, above, I am also looking for info on John Arthur and Elizabeth (maybe Young).  I am looking for a connection to link to Sir John Young who ended up being Governor of New South Wales. 

There is loads of oral history and family stories passed down, connecting Sir John Young and John Arthur - saying they were cousins. 

When John Arthur remarried Margaret Dorrough in NSW, the first three children of that marriage were Robert Young Arthur, John Young Arthur, Elizabeth Arthur (I guess in honour of his first wife).  Another of their children was Gavin Young Arthur.  They also had twins, one of whom was William, and the other James.  Maybe the names are just a coincidence ... or were they all reminders of home?

John Arthur certainly had contact with Sir John Young and was apparently offered land grants by the Governor, which he refused to accept (!?).  On one occasion Governor Young visited Shellharbour NSW, where John Arthur was living, and asked for John to come and see him on the ship.  John Arthur was apparently not that willing to go but was sent off by his wife to visit his cousin (? no real proof of the cousin connection yet).  As John walked up the gang plank his feet slipped and he ended up in the water - very undignified and not happy.  But apparently his sons thought it hilarious and for the rest of their lives laughed uncontrollably whenever the incident was mentioned.

Thank you for that 1766 Census list - and transcription of all the names.  I found the names on that list interesting.  There were obviously Youngs and Arthurs in the same area.  I note there is evidence around that the Youngs may have come from Scotland to the area and there is also oral history in the Arthur family claiming that the name was originally McArthur and they came from Scotland to Ireland.

John Arthur was certainly Presbyterian - and his second marriage was performed in the St Andrew's Presbyterian Church of Scotland in Sydney.  (I am not sure if that means Margaret Dorrough was also Presbyterian) 

Unfortunately, proving much of this is nigh unto impossible.  But this site is great for little bits of information ... and one day, I hope to make my way to Ahoghill to take a look around!

Kathy Lawson

Newcastle, NSW (G-G-Grandaughter of John & Margaret (Dorrough) Arthur - via Alexander, Ernest, and Betty - my mother)

Thanks again to the volunteers on this site.

Katy53Did

Tradition re marriage in Ireland and Scotland was to marry in the bride’s church so if that was also the custom in Australia then that would point to the Dorrough family being Presbyterian.  (Most of Ahoghill is Presbyterian being the descendants of Scots who settled there in the 1600s. A lot were reportedly given land in the area when General Munro’s 10,000 strong Scots army disbanded at Carrickfergus in the 1640s).

There are 3 Presbyterian churches in Ahoghill but only 1 Church of Ireland & 1 RC church, so that gives an indication of the numbers that arrived. The area was basically swamped with Scots settlers, and they remain the predominant denoimination in the area.

Incidentally Dorrough is probably Darragh in Ireland. It’s a common Ulster-Scots surname.

The Mc prefix on names such as McArthur, is detachable and was often dropped or used at whim. Same goes for O’ as in O’Reilly etc. So Arthur and McArthur are interchangeable. (Indeed most Irish search engines will automatically offer both options).

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi,  We should Honestly pull Arthur's & other linked family's  together and make a post/ forum board & try solve this . I  have the family History books on the dorrough's too . I alike Cathy  am  A decendant of John Via Alexander  right down to my Late grandfather( Milton Arthur) who he and my grandmother got a whole heap of family book's  from many of the closely linked family's . Since my Grand- parent's passing I have been wanting to re-write the Arthur Family History book's . My grandfather  Helped write the last one with help from other family members in the linage . Sadly I think alot of the Family who Helped with the last one are long passed I am  slowly finding who passed years etc, Also In the dorrough's family Pioneer's History book  Mathew Dorrough . He and his partner worshipped in a Episcopalian church . Also there's mention of  Church of st James   They attended in Sydney .  Also Margaret was the sister of Mathew  Dorrough

C.J. Arthur

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

C.J.Arthur 

 

Kate Arthur

Just another thought try find my grave sometime you can track graves back 

I  have learnt to use it to track back far with family History

there is  actually alot of family info on find my Grave on Chester Alan Arthur & his family, grand parents and so on 

Kate Arthur

Just another thought try find my grave sometime you can track graves back 

I  have learnt to use it to track back far with family History

there is  actually alot of family info on find my Grave on Chester Alan Arthur & his family, grand parents and so on 

Kate Arthur

Hi cousin C.J. Arthur. Just have to say I loved your Grandfather Milton - a lovely and funny man. And he was certainly much loved by his cousins, my Uncle Alex and my Mum, Betty, in particular. We used to catch up with each other now and then when he lived in the Lake Macquarie area. And when I was little (a very long time ago) I loved to visit his parents and his grandmother at Lennox Head. Just letting you know, also, that Betty is still alive and living in the Lismore, NSW area. She has never moved far from her family roots of the village of Dorroughby. She will be 91 next month and is the last living of Ernest Arthur's 13 children. If you have ever been to a family reunion at Tullera, I may have met you - if not, I hope we do meet at some stage in the future.
Regards
Kathy Lawson

Katy53Did

Hi cousin C.J. Arthur. Just have to say I loved your Grandfather Milton - a lovely and funny man. And he was certainly much loved by his cousins, my Uncle Alex and my Mum, Betty, in particular. We used to catch up with each other now and then when he lived in the Lake Macquarie area. And when I was little (a very long time ago) I loved to visit his parents and his grandmother at Lennox Head. Just letting you know, also, that Betty is still alive and living in the Lismore, NSW area. She has never moved far from her family roots of the village of Dorroughby. She will be 91 next month and is the last living of Ernest Arthur's 13 children. If you have ever been to a family reunion at Tullera, I may have met you - if not, I hope we do meet at some stage in the future.
Regards
Kathy Lawson

Katy53Did

HI, Yes my Father remember's you. I  am Milton's youngest Child's  daughter . My grandfather sadly passed away in 2011 and my grandmother (Evon) passed away on the 29th of last month . it's nice to know Betty is Alive still( Dad was very Happy to hear ) . Also you likely Have never met me , I have never been to a family get together like my grandfather did . Lately I have been trying to update the Family information  death's ,birth's etc . Along the way I am finding more and more family member's still out there working on the family.  which put's a smile on my face and make's me feel like My grandfather's  watching over me. My grandfather  would alway's  teach me about my family History Even 6 month's before he died  he was sitting with me and was very stern with me about  the handling of Family Photo's & doccument's .( tweezers& special gloves)   He was working Hard on the Elizabeth link I  know that much . Soon I want to Go through his note's maybe He found something none of us did ( he was alway's very thorough) According to my Aunt  Anne Arthur is also out there somewhere .sooner or later one of us will find something & work it all out 

C.J.Arthur

Kate Arthur

Hi everyone, I am looking for as much information as possible about the Arthur family. I am trying to make a detailed family tree for my fiance who is also a descendant of John Arthur (1808) via Gavin Arthur (1855), Herbert Arthur (1882),  Stanley Gordon Arthur (1905), Cedric "Earle" Arthur and so on... I know that his Grandfather Earle attended a family gathering years ago and received a family history book but unfortunately, his grandma can't find it and Earle passed away 2 years ago. Would anyone have a digital copy they could send to me or point me to where I could purchase one for myself?

I have also gone through the 1766 religious census in Ahoghill and I have found 5 different Arthurs in it (Robert, Gain, Allen, James and John) but I'm not sure how to connect any of them to John Arthur Sr. (1780) as one of them would likely be his grandfather at best as I doubt kids were included in the census. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Kind regards,

Eva

evaarthur95

Eva,

Probably not much use to you but I can confirm that the 1766 census only listed heads of household. No children or others living within someone else’s household. And we don’t know where in the parish they all lived. Just that they lived in Ahoghill.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Hi all,

I stumbled across this thread and was very pleasantly surprised! I am also a descendant of John Arthur (1808) via Robert Young Arthur (1845), Wesley Albert Arthur (1879), Stan Milton Arthur (1908), Warren Arthur (1941), and Jonathan Arthur (1972). 

I have the valuable opportunity to actually visit Ahoghill in a few weeks and I would like to make the most of it, hopefully confirming or disproving the possible connection to Chester Alan Arthur. I have a copy of the famed red book about the Arthur family history, which will hopefully provide a useful tool. 

However, I thought I would reach out to ask whether there is anything in particular that I should be sure to investigate - perhaps any church records, graveyards, etc. I plan on visiting Arthur Cottage and hopefully talking to a historian there, but with such an important opportunity I feel I must make the effort to uncover all I can. 

Other thigns to note:

Eva,

Per the red book I've merged the Wikitree profile of your fiance's great-great-great grandfather Gavin Arthur (1855) with the established profile of his father John (1808). Will fill in the profiles with info from the red book when I get the chance. I also checked out the 1766 census data, which appears to have changed slightly - only 3 Arthurs (John, James and Robert) now listed. Not sure what this means for Gain and Allen?

SorenArthur

Soren,

The Arthur House is normally open Wednesdays to Saturdays 11 to 3pm but at this quieter time of the year it’s worth phoning or e-mailing in advance to make sure it is open on the day you have in mind. Also if you would like to speak to the historian, you probably need to arrange that in advance too as that person may not always be on site. Contact details here:

https://discovernorthernireland.com/things-to-do/president-arthur-homestead-p687131

Regarding church records, Cullybackey had 3 Presbyterian churches at one time. Today there are just 2. There is also a Church of Ireland and a Methodist church. The Church of Ireland’s records start in 1839. They have been copied and can be viewed in PRONI (the Public Record Office) in Belfast. There is a Reformed Presbyterian church (sometimes known as Covenanter). Their records start in 1822. Again a copy is held in PRONI. There is a Presbyterian church with records from when it opened in 1726. The records for 1726 - 1815 (with gaps) are held in the Presbyterian Historical Society in Belfast (limited opening hours). The records from 1812 onwards are in PRONI. Finally there was a Free Church of Scotland, latterly called the United Free Presbyterian church. It was established around 1815 but has no records earlier than the mid 1860s. It used to get its Ministers from the Free Church of Scotland in Scotland but around 1920 the Presbytery in Edinburgh said it wasn’t willing or able to provide a new Minister and suggested they merge with one of the other 2 Presbyterian congregations in Cullybackey. The congregation decided against that and switched to become Methodists. So the modern Methodist church holds the old Free Church records. But as I say they only start in the mid 1860s. Those records have not been copied by PRONI or any other repository as far as I am aware.

As far as graveyards are concerned, the Reformed Presbyterian church has a graveyard which has been in use since the 1700s. The Presbyterian church has no graveyard and many of their congregation use the Reformed Presbyterian graveyard instead. The former United Free Presbyterian church does have a graveyard but I assume there are no graves older than the 1830s when the church was built. There is also a churchyard at Craigs Church of Ireland which is open for use by other denominations so there will be some Presbyterians there I am sure. Presbyterians in Ireland did not normally keep any burial records in the 1700s and 1800s and certainly none of the churches I have listed has any. The Church of Ireland does keep burial records but only for its own congregation, not for folk of other or no denomination. Only wealthier folk eg farmers had gravestones in the 1700s and 1800s and the majority of the population eg labourers and weavers, were buried in unmarked graves as the family couldn’t afford a gravestone. All of the graveyards mentioned are accessible 24 hours a day but the associated churches may not be open unless there is a service taking place. The United Free church certainly won’t be open as it has closed permanently. (The Methodists who now own it have a more modern church on Shellinghill Rd).

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Reply

Reply
One image file up to 2 MB.