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Wiley, Wile, Wylie, etc.

I am looking for my great grandmotherMinnie Wylie's birth place. I know she was born in Ireland and emigrated to the United States--I would like to know WHERE in Ireland she was born. I'm pretty sure she came from Northern Ireland. Her parents were Mary and James Wylie, married probably in the early 1860's. Three children: Catherine "Cassie" b. 1864; Anne Louise b. 1866; Minnie b. 1870. In 1881 the family was living in England, in Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland. In 1870 Minnie and Catherine ("Cassie") emigrated to the United States and ended up in Erie, Pennsylvania. In 1888 Minnie married John G. ("Jack") Kelley. I've looked at all the standard places online and am at a brick wall.

lindaraeneilso…

53 replies

 

 

 

Katherine,

Ignore the message immediately above which is spam.

Statutory birth registration started in Ireland on 1.1.1864. Catherine was 18 in the 1881 census. The census was taken on the 3rd April, so chances are she was born in 1862 or 1863 and therefore before the start of birth registration, so you won’t find a birth certificate for her.

Minnie is normally a diminutive. Often for names like Mary or Wilhelmina, but without knowing her proper given name it can be a struggle. However I may have a lead for you. What you didn’t tell us in your post is that in the 1881 census James occupation was a plasterer. I found the birth of Mary Wylie at 26 Rowan St, Belfast on 11.3.1870. Father was James Wylie, plasterer and mother was Mary Russell.

What is probably Anne’s birth was in Fivemiletown, Co Tyrone on 18.3.1865. (Civil Registration district - Clogher). The child did not have a name at the time it’s birth was registered but the parents names are the same as for Mary’s and the father's occupation is again plasterer. A sufficiently unusual occupation to identify the family, I think. You can view those 2 births free on this site:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie

The parents married in Magherafelt, Co Londonderry on 25.2.1862. (A Church of Ireland ceremony). You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

The only record of Catherine’s birth is likely to be her baptism. To find that you would need to know the family denomination and where she was born. Not all the baptism records are on-line and so it may be hard to find. It’s probably in PRONI in Belfast but you would need to know which parish to search. The family evidently moved around, presumably following available work so it could be tricky to locate.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Dear Elwyn,

Thank you so much for your reply! I had no idea that the information about James being a plasterer could be of any help. Also, there is a Minnie in three generations--one of them my aunt, and no one ever mentioned her name being anything but Minnie. But it makes sense that my great grandmother may have been named Mary and called Minnie because her mother was named Mary. 

I must be doing something wrong when I search because when I went to the sites you mentioned, I could not find any information about the exact date of birth. Where did you find March 11? I do have March 11, 1970, recorded as Minnie's birth date--my older sister has been researching for a long time and told me that. The name Russell has come up before. But so has the name Blackmire (Blackmore?)--according to ancestry.com, there is a death certificate for Minnie Kelley (I'm sure that was her married name) who was born in Ireland March 11,1869 (I believe 1870 is correct), with father James W. Wylie and mother Mary Blackmire Wylie; died in March 6, 1917, in Erie, Pennsylvania. I don't know where Minnie died, but she did live in Erie. It doesn't help that Kelley, James, Mary, an Minnie are such common names or that Wylie can be spelled so many different ways! 

How did you discover Anne's birth? When her name brought up nothing, I searched for Wylie and left the first name blank and got no results. Is there a better method? 

I'm excited that I can give my sister your information. Thank you!

katherinekelley

lindaraeneilso…

Dear Elwyn,

My sister said that James re-married after his wife Mary died. She doesn't know the second wife's maiden name, but if it was Blackmire, that would explain that name on the death certificate. 

KatherineKelley

lindaraeneilso…

Katherine,

The name Minnie is found fairly widely in Scotland & Ireland. People are sometimes given it as a birth name – I can see about 3000 of them in Ireland in the years 1864 to 1916 - but it’s frequently a diminutive.  I searched for a Minnie birth around the time indicated by the English census. I didn’t find one that fitted, so I looked for likely alternatives and quickly found Mary. Since her date of birth and father’s name and occupation tie in with the information you already have, then it seems pretty certain it’s the right family. Plasterer isn’t that common an occupation, so I think it’s pretty unlikely that there would be 2 families of the same name and occupation with the right number of children of the right ages, at the same time.  I’d be about 99% certain this is the right family.

You ask how I found the other birth, ie Anne Louise. I used a searching trick. Though Northern Ireland births are available free on the Irish genealogy site, those in earlier years on that site don’t show the mother’s name in the indexes. However the GRONI website which contains the same records does show mothers names. So what I did was enter the parent’s surnames Wiley/Wylie and Russell, and leave the child’s forename blank. This search threw up just 3 children in the period 1864 to 1880. One was Mary we already had and another was a female birth to the same parents and fathers occupation, at about the time you know Anne Louise was born. So it has to be the same family. I didn’t find any other children after 1870 and that’s quite important. If this were a different family who stayed in Ireland, you might expect them to have had a few more children. But they don’t. So that’s indicative that they had left Ireland. Just around the very time your family turn up in Newcastle on Tyne. QED.

As far as Catherine is concerned, I suspect the family were probably Church of Ireland so I’d be inclined to search the COI baptism records for Magherafelt (where they married) and Clogher (where Anne Louise was born in 1865) for the years 1862 & 1863, on the basis that they were probably living in one of those 2 parishes at that time. Neither of those parishes records are on-line yet. However there are copies in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. A personal visit is required to view them.

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, which was Magherafelt Church of Ireland. So she seems to have been COI. It’s possible that she came from that parish. Searching those records for her baptism might find siblings and her parents. However I note that she was a servant, and so she probably wasn’t living at home with her family, and so quite where she came from may be a mystery. Her father was John Russell, farmer. I searched Griffiths Valuation for 1858 and did not find any farmer of that name in Co Derry, nor any farmer of that surname in Magherafelt parish, so can’t suggest where she may have come from. (Her father may have been dead or she may have come from another county).

Mary was living at Gravesend when she married. That was a big house, named after a Rev Graves who presumably built it, near Castledawson. I’d expect she was a servant at that house. It’s in Shanemullagh townland. Today it’s the clubhouse for Moyola Golf Club.

You say you can’t find the births on the irishgenealogy site. Are you searching under civil records? That might be the mistake.

A couple of things to add to previous information. Firstly, at the time of the birth in Fivemiletown, the father’s address was given as “believed to be at Belfast”. So he had presumably gone to Belfast to work. I’d wonder what the family were doing in Fivemiletown. Perhaps James had been working there and gone to Belfast leaving his family behind. Or perhaps that’s where one of their parents lived, and Mary and her children were staying there.

Secondly, I forgot to tell you I found another child to James & Mary. James Wylie was born at 57 Nelson St, Belfast on 29.9.1867. Same parents and occupation. There’s a James Wiley death in Belfast on 7.5.1868 aged 0 which may well be him. That death certificate is not on-line free yet, and so if you want to check it out, you can view the original on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate. 

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

 

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