Ireland XO
Back to Message Board

Where do I go (in person) to get copy of old birth certificate (1864-66)? General Register office/Dublin??

My paternal grandfather was born in Garrison, Northern Ireland. DOB is unclear; between 1864-66. Maybe March, uncertain. I have searched all available on line records (for all 3 years, all 12 months of year) and found nothing that appears to match (GenRegister Northern Ireland; Irish Genealogy; Gov.IE; Ireland.Anglican.org and church records (Catholic and Protestant) plus Family Search. Grandfather's name: James Bernard Maguire. Family homestead and cemetery plot both in Garrison. No cousins, via his siblings.

My brother located this birth certificate when he was in Ireland years ago (over 20) and has his Irish passport. He will not share info or details w/ his siblings. Irish Passport office would not confirm exact birth date (I supplied extensive proof of relation to brother & grandfather).

Where do I go in person to search and hopefully find this birth certificate? Am planning a trip specifically for this purpose in the next 2-3 months. Is it just the General Register office in Dublin or do I go to Belfast? I do know I need to make an appointment in advance. Thank you very much for any information.

ElizabethMaguire

6 replies

Elizabeth,

Do you know his parents' names? There is a record on Ancestry for a James Maguire baptized in Dec 1862 in Garrison, Fermanagh, with a father named James as well.

Did James emigrate? Have you searched on Roots Ireland yet? Just curious how he could be your grandfather? That date seems more like a great grandfather relationship to someone alive today.

Regards,

Carolyn

Elizabeth,

Please see attached in relation to Births, Marriages and Deaths. Civil records are from January 1st 1864. In many instances the first name only is recorded.

There are many records of "James Maguire" in County Fermanagh. Your family may have resided at a different location at the time of his birth.

You should inquire where the original birth records are stored. It may be Enniskillen? Do you know where James was baptised and under what name.

The phone number on the attached sheet may assist. Page 2

Regards,

McCoy

Elizabeth,

You probably already know, but birth registration only started in Ireland on 1.1.1864 so if your grandfather was born before that (eg in December 1862 as in Carolyn’s example), there is no birth certificate to find. You would need to obtain a certified copy of his baptismal certificate instead.

A birth in Garrison in 1864 - 1921 would have been registered in Ballyshannon. After partition in 1922 records for that area seem to fall under the Irvinestown registration area in Co. Fermanagh. The records themselves were originally held in Dublin but those for what is now Northern Ireland were extracted and sent to GRONI in Belfast. And I think will appear in GRONI records as registered in Irvinestown. But check with GRONI. Clerks in Dublin made copies of the NI records though and those are available from GRO in Dublin and GRO Roscommon.

As far as GRONI is concerned, the originals used to be accessible but were getting damaged by frequent handling and so when IT made it possible, they were scanned and then stored away. They are off-site in a fireproof location and staff do not routinely have access to them. So if you visit GRONI, you will find yourself searching the same on-line database that you have evidently already used (albeit with a range of more recent records that are not otherwise available). The staff there can answer questions, and can suggest different search techniques, but they don’t have access to the original records nor to any records that are not already on-line.

Can you give us your grandfather’s parents names in case we can spot a likely baptism? Did he have siblings? If so, what were their names, and roughly when were they born?

It’s worth commenting that although it became mandatory to register births from 1.1.1864, in the early years not every birth was registered. So possibly your grandfather was one of those. However it is likely that he was baptised. Your brother seems unwilling to help you, so you don’t really know what records he found. Perhaps a baptismal certificate was used instead of a birth certificate? You say your brother has his Irish passport. Have you actually seen it? (Just a thought).

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Thank you all so very much for the replies and very good additional information. You have sparked more thoughts on ways to dig!

I apologize for not including my great grandparents names and yes, we have pretty good family info (from a meeting w/ cousins in Garrison in 2004 that my American cousin had) that my grandfather was born at what they call the family home in Garrison and my American cousin visited the family plot at the cemetery there. And my brother directly connected Garrison to his search as well. But I will also look at another location that we have recorded for my great grandparents.

I've searched online church records (as well as the other resources) and found abundant records for James (as mentioned), but never with the middle name, nor the correct parent's names and the dates did not seem accurate given what we thought he was most likely born in March 1864. I have found a Boston census record (via Family Search) which I believe is my grandfather and would put his birth year as 1865, again in March. On his Boston marriage certificate he gave his age as 29 in 1895 which would make his birth year 1866 so there are multiple conflicting dates (which is why I went through multiple years).

Thank you Elwyn especially for the details on the counties--I was searching GRONI in the Fermanagh and Enniskillen files but will go in again for Irvinestown and Ballyshannon just in case.

Yes, James emigrated to Boston in 1880. He married in 1895. Died in 1923.

Regarding Carolyn's note about the age--my father was in his 50's when I was born (I'm the youngest of our family); my mother was 14 years younger than my father and my father has been deceased for over 40 years (both my parents were deceased when I was in my early 20's before I thought too much about family history) so yes, James Bernard, born in Garrison sometime around 1864 is my paternal grandfather.

And yes, my brother did receive his Irish passport quite some time ago (confirmed) and probably when less paperwork was required. But he did talk about finding the records when he was there (in Garrison) and as noted, it could have been a baptismal certificate. My brother didn't decide to stop seeing/speaking with his siblings until some years later but when my sister wrote to him about the details he wouldn't engage.

I did look at Roots Ireland but recall not having much luck and didn't concentrate there.

Great grandparents: John Maguire & Margaret Cullen (do not have middle names); and the records on their location is unclear. The info we have says County Fermanagh but the town name seems to be a mistake or misspelled--it says Bumoran and I've found nothing that matches. I know there is a Bundoran in Donegal.

James Bernard did have siblings (I don't have details on years, except for a best guess on Patrick): Hugh Maguire who remained single/in Ireland; Mary Maguire who also remained single/in Ireland; Patrick Maguire (estimated birth year 1874, as he was known to join James in Boston for his brother's wedding (8/1895 when he was 21), Patrick married in Boston in 1908 and remained in Boston. Additional James siblings; John Maguire (married in US but we don't have details or family name of wife); and Bernard who married Catherine Quinn in Ireland, and remained in Garrison (they are the parents of the cousins my American cousin met in 2004).

Thank you all again, I'll dig back in with the additional locations and see if I have luck. The church records in particular seem to be much harder to decipher.

ElizabethMaguire

Elizabeth,

Here’s the birth for Patt Maguire in March 1873. 

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1873/03197/2172177.pdf

Birth was in Drumnasreane. Local registrar was in Belleek and Ballyshannon was the main registration town. Belleek now falls within Irvinestown’s registration area. I think pre- 1922 births will show up as registered in Irvinestown in the GRONI indexes.

Hugh Maguire birth in 1870, again in Drumnasreane:

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1870/03347/2226962.pdf

John & Margaret in the 1901 census:

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Fermanagh/Inishmacsaint/Drumnasreane/1360083/

(The Valuation Revision books on the PRONI site show them having 2 plots in Drumnasreane - plot 8A, acquired from Terence Maguire in 1878 (26 acres) and plot 10 another 5 acres acquired in 1875. There was a Terence Maguire farming in Drumnasreane in the 1834 tithe applotment records. Was he John Maguire’s father perhaps:

https://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/fermanagh/tithe-applotment-books/parish-of-inishmacsaint.php

Terence Maguire died in 1875 at the impressive but improbable age of 118 (I’d knock 20 years off that. Information on death certificates was often just guessed at that period). Informant was John Maguire.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020623/7235589.pdf

Family in 1911:

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Inishmacsaint/Drumnasreane/511868/

Possible probate abstract for Bernard in 1954:

Maguire Bernard of Drumnasreane county Fermanagh farmer died 15 March 1954 at Erne Hospital Enniskillen county Fermanagh Probate Belfast 22 April to Patrick Joseph Maguire taxi driver. Effects £85 10s.

Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘IrelandXO Volunteer

Elizabeth,

You keep mentioning "middle names"...don't get hung up on those because they didn't really become popular in Ireland until the early 20th century. I have found that the majority of my eight great grandparents that emigrated to the US gave themselves a middle name that was not given at birth. I believe that in the US it was a common thing to have a middle name, thus they went along with that trend to possibly "fit in".

The baptism records for the RC parish of Belleek began in 1864, so if your grandfather was born before then, I'm not sure about finding a record.

I found two more sibling's civil birth records that you have not mentioned on Roots Ireland:

Margaret Maguire, DOB - 19 Aug 1868, baptized - 28 Aug 1868, residence - Drumnasreane, parents - John Maguire (farmer) & Margaret Cullin, RC parish Belleek, Fermanagh, sponsor John (it says Drumnasreane, but that's probably an error)

Charles Maguire, DOB - 19 Jul 1880, baptized - 20 Aug 1880, residence - illegible, parents - John Maguire (farmer) & Margaret Cullen, RC parish Belleek, Fermanagh, sponsor - John illegible

Regards,

Carolyn

Reply

Reply
One image file up to 2 MB.