Hi
I'm wondering if any problems would arise using these boards if we don't know which parish an ancestor is from?
My ancestor is from Cork. I have joined the Cork forum but sadly no responses to a post about my Anne McCarthy, I thought maybe it could be I didn't give or link to a Parish?
Thanks for your guidance
Kylie :)
Hi Kylie,
What year was Ann born?
Did she stay in Ireland if not where did she go to.
You are best working back.....marriage, who to and any children.
Margot
Kylie:
Not having the parish is not an issue. All messages end up on the main message board. Sorry you did not get a reply to your first message which I just reviewed.
Co. Cork RC church records are on two different sites depending on the diocese.The records for the Diocese of Cloyne are on the subscription site Roots Ireland. I searched on that site for any Anne McCarthy baptismal records with father Denis from 1813-1823 and there were no records. The parishes for the Diocese of Cork and Ross are on the free site www.irishgenealogy.ie ; Keep in mind that not all parishes have records back to 1818. I found three possible leads on that site
Anne McCarthy baptized January 14 1819 parents Denis McCarthy and Mary Sullivan in Dunmanway (this is the record you mentioned in your earlier message)
Anne McCarthy baptized February 13 1817 parents Denis McCarthy and Jane Kelly in Enniskeane
Anne Carthy baptized November 1 1820 parents Denis Carthy and Anne Coghlan in Enniskeane
Not sure how you can confirm any of these records without other family info. Have you considered DNA testing?
Let me know if you have any questions.
Roger McDonnell
Thanks Roger & Margot.
I have tested my DNA, my daughter, half brother (from correct branch), a 4th cousin & her mother have tested & we found another half 4th cousin from Anne McCarthy. However I'm wondering if the half is a full cousin (this weeks theory).
The half 4th cousin believe's Anne's mothers maiden name was Shea.
Anne McCarthy somewhere between being born & 1843 arrived in NSW, Australia.
The above first mentioned 4th cousin, her & I both know we descend from Anne McCarthy and her children born McGill. There is NO paper trail of her 'husband' Michael McGill (sometimes Gill) except on his children's baptism records. Anne's last husband who was informant on her death certificate had things wrong, including putting his own daughter with Anne on the 'first marriage' list of children.
Anne's story is confusing, frustrating & in places makes NO sense. But I'll give it a go.
Born c 1818 in Cork, Munster, Ireland. (that's the easy bit done)
The above mentioned HALF 4th cousin descends from Anne's apparent 'first relationship' with a Thomas Cole. Their daughter Ann born c1845 in Goulburn NSW. (she married Mr J. Noble)
At some point Anne marries Michael McGill/Gill. They had Richard born 17 April 1844 in Lachlan River NSW (exactly! already dates are off).
She then had Winifred McGill 18 Feb 1845 (first 4th Cousin mentioned descends from her).
Annie McGill c 1846 (yes why would you name daughters Ann & Annie?! plus circa same year - hence my thoughts the men are the same person)
Denis 1848, Mary (I descend from) 1850, Michael 1851, Bridget 1855.
There is no marriage found for Michael McGill & Ann McCarthy. There is no Death Cert for Michael McGill.
Anne McCarthy then has daughter Sarah McDonald with Mr John McDonald in 1861. (DNA matches).
Somewhere between 1855 & 1860 Michael McGill took off, kicked out. However Anne I believe must have been married to him as she didn't marry John McDonald until 1885 only to die 6months later. Why would she wait 20 years to marry otherwise? On her marriage cert to John she uses "McGill" and "widow". Also no parent names are stated.
Anne's Death certificate the informant being John McDonald makes a real mess of the information.
Says Anne's first marriage she was aged 15 in Ireland to a Moran Brown information my Mum found (before she passed) has the date of marriage 27 Nov 1835, Churchtown, Liscarrol. (RC) and lists Maurice Brown. John McDonald lists the following for Children of Issue to "Moran Brown", Michael 38, Dennis, 34, Andrew 34, Ann 32, Minnie 30, Mary 28, Bridget 26 & Sarah 24. He lists NO children under his marriage with her. I can understand why.
After reading this I think where is Andrew? we've never found him. But if Anne married at 15 why did she not have her first child until she was 27? (give or take a year) That's the big one for me. John does list a father for Anne says is Dennis McCarthy and he was a farmer.
Also Minnie would be Winnie, where is Richard in the list of children? where is the 'other' Ann/Annie?
Majority of these questions I'm not asking for answers to, I'm simply stating all the messed up, backwards, bang head against wall information there is.
I know I'm related to Winifred & Bridget McGill's descendants, Sarah McDonald, and Ann Cole/? who married Mr J Noble. That covers all 3 sets of children from apparently 3 different men, leaving us again with Mr Moran/Maurice Brown!
My theory is Moran/Maurice/Thomas & Michael McGill are all the same man. Ann Cole & Annie McGIll could be possibly the same person & a full cousin not half. Ann Cole's Death Cert does list her maiden name as Cole her marriage cert lists it as Coal. I've yet to find evidence amongst Mum's papers that show Annie McGill was born to Michael & Ann.
So I do have information about Anne. I'd simply like to discover her parents, siblings, when & why she came to Australia. I did find several Anne McCarthy's on passenger lists. But still left open a few possibles from memory.
If you understood all that, well done it's taken me a year to unscramble what Mum had in her database, hard copies, tracking down the 'other' cousins to start making sense of it.
Thank you & sorry for the length & if I confused you.
Kylie :)
Hi Kylie,
Can I just check was she one of the Bounty Ship ladies?
There is one I found born about 1817 and on a Bounty ship called the Georgiana in 1841.
The record shows Port Philip Bay, but, they did change ships there and other ports and then went on to their final destination.
I have found this before where they would drop off and pick up on their travels.
The ship also says depature port Liverpool, but that doesn't mean they got the ship there, during that time cargo and passengers Pick up and frop off on the journey.
I have sent a message to a tree owner as they have a place name in Ireland and I would just like to know where they got it from.
When I have a reply I will search to make sure it is your Ann.
Cheers
Margot
Thanks Margot. I wish I knew how Ann got here. I will also recheck some of the certificates Mum has & see if any mention "X her mark", thinking that may also help.
Fingers crossed you hear back from the tree owner :)
Kylie
Hi Margot
I've gone back & looked to see if Ann McCarthy signed anything - her wedding cert to John McDonald (not my ancestor) NSW BDM 1885/4448 shows under her name which she used "Ann Mcgill" it has "her X mark".
Kylie :)
Hi,
The tree I saw.
They had Ann MacCarthy born in Castle Mary.
Castle Mary is a Castle named after as lady called Mary Hawnby.
I asked where they got this information from. She said she was born in St Mary's.
They were going to look at what they had entered for her place of birth.
With the mention of St Mary's, being in Cork City I looked to the Church records.
Her Baptism is below, Denis McCarthy and Anne Shea. 17th June 1820.
04782/02, St. Mary's, Cork city - Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI
Cheers
Margot
Thank you Margot!!!
I'm somewhere between over the moon, wishing Mum was here, teary eyed but absolutely big smile on my face.
2021 is hands down the better year than the previous 2 years!
Thank you again.
Kylie :)