Tipperary Co. Hogan family

Hello Tamitha. Would you please clarify if it was Joseph or William who boarded ship for America? If Joseph went to America when he was young and didn't return how was William born in Limerick?

You said that Joseph was born in 1744 in Tipperary and that he and Rebecca, his wife had a son, William, who was born in Limerick. You also said that William Hogan was in Virginia in 1753. When was William born? Joseph, his father would have been only 9 years old in 1753 if his birth year of 1744 was accurate. Do you have an approximate year of birth for William?

From which source is the information about places and years of birth for Joseph and William ?

You said that William was in Virginia in 1753 and that he married Nancy Dillard in Virginia in Jan. 1780. However you also said that James Hogan, son of William & Nancy was born in Limerick, Ireland in Dec. 1780. Are you sure this couple were the same William & Nancy? What was Wlliam's occupation which led to him crossing the Atlantic again? Were there more children born of the marriage? Do you know where and when William and Nancy died?

Records are scarce once you get back into 18th century. If Joseph (or William) joined a British Navy ship and if records were kept and if they survived, they might be in English National Archives. If it was just an ordinary merchant ship and not one of His Majesty's Ships there probably wasn't any record.

You mentioned war. Another possibility is that Joseph ? William ? or both  joined army or marines (or whatever marine equivalent was at the time) and arrived in America that way. Britain was often at war with France during 18th century.  Any surviving records would be in English National Archives.

Do you know religious denomination of William or his parents? You're reliant on parish registers for baptisms and marriages but not many exist from 18th century.  Btw if they were Catholic they were less likely to have joined army in 1750s as there were restrictions on Catholics joining or using guns until later in century.

 

Hi Maggie,

Thank you for getting back with me, I am so sorry for the confusion. I was just coping and pasting what my mom had listed and I got some of the information incorrect. I have corrected the information in my origianl post, but to make it easier for you I have also included it here.

my mothers Grand Father (5 or 6x) is Joseph Hogan, who we believe was born in Tipperary, Tipperary, Ireland. He had one son with Rebecca. William Hogan was born in Limerick, Limerick, Ireland, to Rebecca and Joseph Hogan.William Hogan lived in Prince William, Virginia. William Hogan married Nancy Dillard in Henry, Virginia, on January 19, 1780. James Hogan was born on December 13, 1780, in Limerick, Limerick, Ireland, the son of Nancy and William. He had six sons and six daughters with Elizabeth Spraggins. Most of this was passed down to us so the dates may be off a bit, but we have tried to get them as close to what could be correct as possible.

The story of our family, where we hit the dead end, is with William Hogan. This story says that William was sent to the market by his mother, and instead of returning home, he boarded a ship to America. We heard that he was young, and that there may not have been a roster made of all those who boarded the ship to work. One story tells that he boarded he ship because the captain was recruiting help and would provided safe travel home but he never made it back to the ship to return home after exploring America. Another story says that they were recruiting men to help with the war, and he jumped at the idea, but never returned to the ship, and started a family in America. This is all very interesting and we would love to hear more!! My mother has been working on this for many years now, but we have no idea where to go from here. We do not have access to alot of records, and we cannot pay to access the other sites. She is really interested in knowing her Geneological background, and if I could help her in anyway, I am going to try, Hence, here I am!! I hope I have provided enough information for someone out there.

 

I am just going off of what my mother has told us, but with the Hogan family line, there are so many possibilites. They may have been Catholic, but I am not sure of that, because we have nothing stating the religious affiliations from any of the records we have found. We assume Catholic, because that was what nearly everyone was at that time. We also have been told that the William we may be looking for is William Lawrence, however my mother has been DNA matched to someone who does not have any affiliation with William Lawrence. It's all very confusing, but interesting at the moment.

This is the timeline that I have traced from my great grand father to William Hogan in Limerick, Ireland:

Grady Henry Hogan 1900-1985

John Mac Hogan 1876-1922

John Chappell (Chapel) Hogan (Known as Chap) 1837-1877

James Hogan 1780-1852. ( It could also be 1789-1854) His wife is Elizabeth Spraggins 1790-1868.  It was said that he was born in Limerick, Ireland in December as well, but we do not know why his parents were in Ireland at this time. His older sister Elizabeth was born in South Carolina March of 1780. We have it listed both ways ( born in Limerick and born in South Carolina) at the moment with "?" by them because we have no hard evidence like birth or baptism records.

William Hogan - Born in Limerick, Ireland and  died around 1805. His wife is Nancy Dillard. They married in Henry, Virginia, USA, and had 7 children.

We've heard his father may be Joseph Hogan but we are unsure as we can not find anything on William Hogan. We know he was born in the beginnig of the 1700's and may have died around 1785. Another theory is that William Hogan is not the correct person for this particular family line, and that Joseph Hogan is the father of James Hogan. Joseph could have been born 1744-1814. This is all theory because we hit a road block. As I mentioned before, we are not financially equiped to pay for any research and find it difficult to push further past this point.  

Thanks for answering the questions from my first reply.

Correct years of birth are hard to verify for Irish people born in 18th century. They may not have been sure themselves how old they were. If Elizabeth and James Hogan were sister and brother, the dates of birth you have for them, March and December 1780, can't both be correct. Were these dates calculated from census or death registration records? Was Nancy Dillard the mother of both? Nancy was sometimes a form of Ann.

Were the other 5 children of William & Nancy born in Virginia? Do you have names and dates for them? Did they include a son named Joseph?

It's possible that William was in navy, army or militia or on a merchant ship. That would explain a child born in Limerick after a marriage in Virginia. The dates coincide with American War of Independence. 

Do you have any information on William's wife, Nancy Dillard? Age or country of origin?

GENUKI Tipperary pages has a long list for Hogan in Surnames Interest section. Also other bits & pieces. GENUKI is a volunteer site. Just do an internet search for GENUKI Tipperary. You can look up any place in Ireland or Britain on GENUKI. Unfortunately some areas don't have volunteers to do updates.

I see that you have also posted on the Limerick board today.

 

 

/i Maggie, 

My name is Cynthia McTaggart, I am Tami's (Tamitha Sprenger) mother.

My Mother's name was Martha Lou Hogan, (b) 09/29/1934 - Georgia

My Maternal Grandfather was Grady Henry Hogan (b) 07/06/1900 - Georgia

My Great Grandfather was John Mac Hogan (b) 1876

My Great Great Grandfather was John Chappell Hogan (b) 1837

My Great Great Great Grandfather was James Hogan (b) 1780

Note: It was told by everyone that knew James, that he spoke with a Gaelic accent.

The Story of Joseph Hogan

by Wes Hogan

 

My sources show John Chappell Hogan was the son of James Hogan and his wife Elizabeth Spraggins. James was the son of the immigrant, Joseph Hogan, who left Ireland on a ship when only 14 years old, in 1758. I can confirm the data on James, but am still looking for proof for Joseph.

Right now the best proof I have is the story told by my great grandfather and namesake, Dr. Thomas Wesley Hogan, to my Aunt. He said his father was William, brother of your Thomas J. Hogan. They were sons of James and Elizabeth, and James was the son of Joseph. Joseph was the progenitor of our family according to the Dr. Thomas Wesley Hogan family lore. Joseph lived in Tipperary, Ireland, near the water. When he was 14 years old, he was sent to a mill on a mule with a sack of grain to be ground for his mother. Arriving at the mill, he encountered the captain of a sailing ship who was recruiting boys to come to the new world. No money was needed, for someone would pay the passage in return for work on a farm as an indentured servant. Joseph sent the animal home and left Ireland, without the consent of his family. He is said to have arrived in South Carolina about 1758, and worked his way across South Carolina to Pickens, SC. However, Pickens County did not exist until it was formed from the Pendleton District in 1825. Some of the time Joseph was fighting in the French and Indian War, which started in 1754 and continued until peace was signed in February 1763, but for the most part he was a farmer.

According to Jewel Moats Lancaster, a descendant of Joseph, and at one time president of the Georgia Genealogical Society, the story is slightly different. She says: "Mama always said she understood that his [meaning Joseph's] mother sent him to the commisary for supplies; he went, but found out that there was a war going on over here [ in America] so he went aboard ship, came over to find that war had just ended; he wanted to "look around" before going home, but was warned that the boat was going right back to Ireland; just the same, he "looked around" and when he got back the boat was gone!'

The records are silent on any Joseph Hogan, until 1773, when a Joseph Hogan is mentioned as a landowner on the Little Saluda River, SC. This area fell within the confines of 96 District. In "Abstracts of Old 96 and Abbeville District Wills and Bonds, by Young, there is a will for Joseph Hogains, written 18 November, 1779 and proved 9 February, 1785, which gives the following information: Exr. wife Rebecca Hogains; witnesses Sterling Turner, Peter Foy, John Foy. Bequests are made to Jesse Gains and Sarah Gains. Claims made by our family members that this is the will of our Joseph do not appear justified for the following reasons: The name Hogains never appears in family lore; Family lore says Joseph died in 1814, yet this will was proved in 1785; Joseph's son James was not born until 1790, 5 years after Joseph Hogains died.

Only family legend exists to prove the above details on Joseph and his wife. The story and connection with the cited will are based on information passed to Martha Hogan Avett, my aunt, by her grandfather, Dr. Thomas Wesley Hogan. Dr. Hogan named his father, William, as the son of James, the son of Joseph. If Joseph Hogains is the progenitor, it may be that Dr. Hogan was mistaken and a generation is missing between Joseph and James.

I still have problems with the story of Joseph, which I will be happy to discuss, but the story stands up pretty well.

Wes Hogan

Since joining Ancestry.com I have found information that James Hogan's parents are said to be William Hogan and Nancy Dillard both from Virginia but settled in South Carolina.

William Hogan is the mystery, there are many, many, many William Hogans in Virginia, Kentucky, and South Carolina.

The belief on Ancestry.com is that our William Hogan is actually William Lawrence Hogan (b) 1750 but that does not fit with the story of Joseph, does it?

William Lawrence Hogan was said to be born in Virgina to US parents however his son, William Lawrence Hogan (b) 1792 was Naturalized in South Carolina in 1826 and he states that he was born in Limerick, Ireland.

The questions we all have are this:

 

Are we the decendants of William Lawrence Hogan (b) 1750?

Is our William Hogan, the mysterious Joseph, possibly Joseph William or William Joseph?

I have documents that prove my lineage all the way to James Hogan. It is when we get to Joseph and/or William that I hit the wall.

I did GedMatch, my kit # is A944148 in the hopes that I can figure out the mystery.

I hope this answers all your questions.

It is very nice to meet you.

 

I've been pursuing a theory that William Hogan may have been in military or navy.

There is a discharge record in English National Archives catalogue for a William Hogan who served in 17th Dragoons (Light) Regiment. Unfortunately the catalogue entry has no dates.

William Hogan. Born: (Not known);   Served: 17th Dragoons (Light);  Discharged: (Not known) Year.

Record set: Royal Hospital Chelsea: Soldier Service Documents 1760-1854. Discharge papers are arranged by regiment. Ref. WO 97/1184B/ 149

The Royal Hospital Chelsea dealt with soldier's pensions. A retired soldier receiving a pension might call himself a Chelsea Pensioner. There may have been many men called Wiliam Hogan in army or navy but a lot of records won't have survived. The National Archives  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ;

The 17th Light Dragoons existed 1759-1821. It had been in Ireland from 1764, HQ at Cork. The regiment went with the 49th Foot on the outbreak of the American War of Independence. The 17th Dragoons served throughout the war.  The regiment was at the siege of Charlston 1780. It returned to Ireland at the end of the war. (Coincidently today is anniversary of Battle of Germantown.)

Military records on Find My Past include one from 1782 for William Hogan; Record set: British Royal Navy and Royal Marines Services Pension Records 1704-1919. There are also records for Hagan and Hugon for this period.

 

Hello, Cynthia.

Just picking up on a few points from the account by Wes Hogan.

"Joseph lived in Tipperary, Ireland, near the water." Tipperary is the largest landlocked county in Ireland. I take it the captain was not with his ship at the time. Tipperary Town is on a river. A larger river is the Suir which flows into Waterford. River Shannon borders County Tipperary to the north, meeting the sea at Limerick. Tipperary Town is 20+ miles from Limerick City. 

"Joseph's mother sent him to the commissary for supplies" indicates army barracks to me. I'm not familiar with the word "commissary". I looked it up  -  one meaning is a store in army accomodation or prison. A civilian needing food or items they couldn't produce themselves in 1750 would buy them at market or a shop. I think an army store would be for soldiers and their families; I may be wrong, not knowing  details of army life or how much it interacted with the local population. There were certainly plenty of barracks in 19th century; I don't know how common they were in 18th century Tipperary. Members of the 17th Dragoons, mentioned in my previous post, were billetted in private houses and inns in Cork in 1760s because their barracks had yet to be built.

You said "It was told by everyone who knew James that he spoke with a Gaelic accent."  If he retained an Irish accent all his life it would indicate that either he spent his childhood in Ireland or that he spent it in an Irish community in America, if such communities existed then, having little contact with non-Irish people until he was almost grown-up. A child leaving his birthplace before adolescence generally loses his accent.

 

Dear Maggie,

 

See how confusing it is. I think they may have either changed the location in Ireland. I believe the family legend and there was a Joseph but I don't know where he came from. He was said to have been born in 1744 in Ireland and he was married to Rebecca. I have located some information on Ancestry.com that would seem to suggest that he was actually born in 1724.

We have located a biography for one of James' brothers, Hamilton Hogan.

Hamilton Hogan says that his grandparents were William Hogan and Nancy Dillard both of Virginia.

Everyone on Ancestry.com says that this William Hogan was born to US Parents and that he was born in 1750. 

I don't know where they got this information from because he has a son also named William (James's brother) that was Naturalized in South Carolina. His birthplace is listed as Limerick, Ireland.

I think you are exactly right, James is older than his brother William. That would mean that they were both born in Ireland. That would account for James' Gaelic accent.

This is the brick wall that Tamitha is trying to help me with. 

 

Thank You so very much for listening to my story.

It is so very nice to meet you.

Cynthia McTaggart

Are you familiar with these websites?

Townland of Origin   -  Irish Genealogical Research in North America

www.townlandoforigin.com ;

Irish Genealogy Project  -  Including  Irish Genealogy Project  Archives 

www.igp_web.com ;

This has pages for each county. Headings in Tipperary section include:  Census Substitutes; Surname Registry; Newspaper Page; Tipperary Facebook. Some census substitutes date from 17th & 18th centuries. The newspaper page has extracts from various Tipperary newspapers from late 18thC onwards (mostly crimes, marriages of quality folk, deaths and  debtors) and Tipperary news in "The Times" (of London) from 1750. Reports from Assizes (courts) are on newspaper pages. Frequent mentions of members of various regiments and militias since they were responsible for keeping order and making  arrests.