Seeking information on Burke/Hayes families, Cashel

Hello Roger

Thank you so much for your reply. The update on the records is really helpful and that is an exciting development - we are so lucky to have so much information accessible now.

We appreciate your help,
Karen van Harskamp
:o)

Hello!

This a general enquiry - When my Great Great Grandmother Mary Burke emigrated From her hometown of Cashel in her early 20s before 1877 to Queensland in Australia she brought with her a really large Catholic religious image of the "Holy Virgin Maria" with her (greyscale face/hands - almost pencil-like/shaded lithograph style with coloured robes overlaid with gold decorations/enamel flowers on the sleeves).  I realise historically people often took religious imagery with them when they travelled, especially on a one way journey from home - but I was wondering if anyone has found or heard of such imagery being useful as evidence in Irish family history or if such images were so common/available/mass produced that they may just be a lovely heirloom.  Her father was a farmer and she signed her mark as an 'X' - it just seems odd to imagine such a large, richly coloured image hanging in a farmhouse or cottage.  If this query is too specific to the site's purpose - please ignore - I was just curious if anyone had ever found clues to family origins in artwork carried by them from Ireland.

Many, many thanks in advance, Karen van Harskamp

Hello Karen,

My Great Grandmother's name was Johanna Burke also spelled Bourke born about 1830, that is a estimate as her husband Patrick Tobin was born 1828.  I wanted to let you know that my Mother told me that most of her father's family had indeed gone to Australia, My Grandfather Came to New York in 1906, also from Cashel according to marriage and immigration records.  With that said, I have discovered my Grandfather living what is considered "Cashel" in townland of Carron, and the Union of Killenasteena.  His parish is listed in the 1901 census as St. John the Baptist, which is a bit south of where, My Great Grandfather and Gr Grandmother were married in Fethard.  I am suspecting there were work houses in the area and possible that Johanna may have resided in a in servant place in the Fethard area and then Finding alot of Burkes in the area I described above, am suspecting she and her family were from that part of Cashel.  I am still learning about the different names for communities within a place of residence and and where to search.

Have you by any chance taken a DNA test?  I have tested with FTDNA, aks FamilyTree DNA, for the family finder for $99. They have been shipping and have a world wide database the longest out of all the companies.  I also have taken those results and put them in a Free Website that takes DNA from 3 different companies and thus far have a few Irish connections.

Good luck and hopefully, I'll be able to find a connection with our Burkes!

Kathleen

Hi Kathleen - thank you for replying - sorry it takes me so long to return communications - I am very interested in looking into DNA testing because to be honest without the ability to go onto Ancestry or put a lot of finances into pursuing family history on behalf of older family members - I feel with an ancestor with a name like Mary Burke (!) in a Roman Catholic background - I'm not even in with the hay - I'm still out in the paddock with the searching!  I realise DNA testing has its own financial commitments but it may help narrow things down a little with this particular branch of our Irish forbears.  As Mary did not read or write there is so little that has survived beyond vague word of mouth in our family histories of her.  We do have a beautiful portrait of her - dark haired and fiery eyed and the above religious artwork that she brought from Ireland with her - which I am grateful for - it is more than many people have... I have found with other branches where our other Irish ancestors were male, convicts or were literate - we seem to have been able to flesh them out much more quickly.  Well done on knowing so much about your Burkes - I still haven't quite managed to find the headspace/time to cement the Parish/Townlands definitions as clearly as you seem to have.  I hope to get there one day!  It would be wonderful if there was a connection - it is very tricky when different branches head off to different countries - it would be lovely to be able to piece it all back together...  Good luck to you, Karen van Harskamp (Burke descendant)

Hi Vanka,

 

Well, I think until further records become available like Roger indicated, and or DNA which I've already explained the company that I have used. FTDNA for $99.

I do however believe there is a connection with our Bourkes/Burkes, because of the timeline and I'm finding so many DNA contacts from Australia, Yet they do not have maiden names, like you do.

I have had contact with a cousin in Austrailia his Grandfather Michael Tobin born in 1861 was my Grandfather William Tobin's brother.  Thier mother was Johanna/Judith Bourke. 

I have a DNA match that  go back to perhaps a Stephen Tobin and Margaret Bourke born about 1765, as well, back about 7 generations, and I think it was common to marry distant cousins.. so..  you may also have the same matches as myself.

We can be patient and wait for the records, because that is the fun part researching.

Be well,

Kathleen

Update on Mary Burke (b. around 1852) to William Burke (farmer) and Bridget Hayes (spellings may be much more fluid!) - whose origins were uniformly recorded on her marriage, children's birth certificates and her death certificate as being "Cashel, Tipperary, Ireland".  Mary Burke, 24, sailed on the 'Warwick Castle' from Gravesend, London on March 10, 1876 under the 'free' (unassisted) category, arriving in Moreton Bay, Brisbane, Queensland on June 21, 1876.  On board also was James Burke, 28, who may have been Mary's older brother/a cousin/an uncle based on later property record transactions.  There were Hayes who sailed on the same journey - Mary Hayes, 20, and John Hayes, 18, although possible family connections have not been established.  Many Irish Roman Catholic Tipperary-familiar surnames sailed with Mary, such as the Kennedy family and Ryans. There were 196 Irish migrants, overwhelmingly the majority, out of the 382 travelling. Our Mary Burke married on 14 January, 1877, a fellow 'Warwick Castle' sailor, James Charles Marden (son of Leonhardt Marden/Elizabeth Erhardt), born in Hamburg, Germany who was baptised Catholic after their wedding and the death of their second son.  They had seven children - William Patrick (1877), Joseph Leonard (1878), James Peter (1880), John Charles (1881), Mary Elizabeth (1883), Bridget Catherine (1885) and Sarah Eleanor (1888) - we're hoping there might be a few clues in naming patterns for further ancestors.  A few interesting oral snippets handed down through the family:  1) It was reputed that Mary Burke's family had "gypsy" heritage (which could allude to non-Irish Romani, Irish Traveller and/or economic/occupation nomadic movement heritage); 2) Mary Burke/Marden was proud of her horse skills sending out advertisements for a new buggy horse declaring "lady can drive" in 1896; 3) Musical talent was especially valued and nurtured in the children, with "open house" held on weekends with dances on the verandahs and tables as piano melodies spilled out into the night; 4) Thomas Charles Beirne (b. 9 July, 1860) of
Ballymacurley, Roscommon, a fellow Irish immigrant who made his name as a Brisbane entrepreneur, philanthropist and household name, was reputed to be a cousin.  Although Mary was illiterate her entire life, she signed her will in 1923 with an 'X' - she ended up owning quite a few properties in her own name, one of the earliest purchased from a "James Burke" in 1884. I've started poring over the online digitised Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI being in Australia, very slowly, with great attention to detail (especially handwriting!) - a few years either side of Mary Burke's birth year, aware also that a baptism may not always be in the year of birth.  I am wondering if I could confirm which parish records would be most relevant to someone born in "Cashel, Tipperary" as I am aware of the layers of complexity in Irish 'place' names historically?  I'd also like to share my fear that the relevant entry may exist in the challenge-rich bottom edges of the register page reading-wise or be lost in a book-keeping brain fart historically - but I remain optimistic.  Hoping to find more traces of the Burkes/Hayes, Karen van Harskamp  (A 1913 portrait of Mary Marden nee Burke, at her youngest daughter Sarah Eleanor's (Sadie's) wedding, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia)

 

 

 

 

Hello Roger, Hope you are well!  Thank you for the update on the availability of the Cashel RC parish register - I have started doing a very slow trawl through the scanned parish records.  Have not quite managed to find any records attached to William and Bridget Burke (nee Hayes) as a married couple or any of their children yet - but I remain hopeful that I may come across something in the near future :)  Have a wonderful weekend, Karen